Miraphone 1291 Problems

[Roger Lewis]

Having watched the instruments being lacquered at the factory, I would have to say that your repairman needs to have his vision checked. The very last step of the horn assembly process is the lacquering - after the horn has been completely assembled and buffed. After that it is packed for shipping.

I am trying to work with both you and Miraphone on this and would have apprecitated you bringing your comments and concerns to me so that I could work with you on them. I guess you just needed to vent in a public forum.

[Alan Baer]

Dear Pedalocity,
When I saw your post this morning I was to say the least Quite surprised First of all, the bracing one the horn is done LONG before ANY lacquer is applied, so if this is what your repairman is telling you, better find a new one..
I have to 1291's that I play ALL THE TIME...... AND I am not easy on horns. Why did yours come apart, I'm really not certain, but I assure you that this is not a common thing. Now, I will say that some have managed to pull the thumb ring tube off their horn. I still can't figure this one out.. I would say this to ANYONE playing ANY instrument. if you are lifting your horn by a single tube, your going to create a problem..
I believe there are two braces,(without taking the horn out to look) that holds the thumb ring, why would anyone dangle almost 20-30 lbs by two small contact points? My point here is that, everyone needs to be looking at WHERE they are picking up their instrument. When out of the case, by the edge of the bell and around the main bell ferrule. If your hauling it out by ANY of the valve slide tubing, not only are you creating problems with bracing, you could be actually bending tubing AND creating stress throughout the instrument.
I don't care who makes the horn, they are NOT made to withstand the entire weight of the horn one a single tube.
I'm glad that WWand BW is willing to take care of this for you.
I'm certain that their repairman will look closely to the horn and if he can figure out why it came apart it will go to the factory so the head Tech there can. I will be sending this e-mail as well as you message directly to the company so that this is not overlooked. Most importantly, be assured that the bracing DOES NOT go on before the lacquer and this is not the problem. I hope your happy with the new horn.
Good luck,
Alan Baer

[Matt G]

It doesn't take much to be able to tell if braces went on before the lacquer.

I would challenge your repairman to name any brand of mainstream instruments that have the braces put on before the final finish. This would nearly be akin to painting cold rolled steel before it is stamped into body panels at a automotive plant.

I have seen hundreds of Mirafone tubas, and all of them have had good quality construction. If anything, I could possibly find fault that maybe they got into a bad batch of flux or solder and that is where the anomaly (your first horn) came from.

The only other possibility is that the horn get knocked in a shipment and put a lot of tension on those braces. Again, this is not the fault of Mirafone.

Any repairman that says a horn is lacquered before assembly should be questioned. Definitely seek out a second, reputable, opinion.

[Matt Walters]

Dear Pedalocity,
I can only second everything Alan Baer wrote.

1) Don't pick a horn up by th the thumb ring or one slide tube, etc. Find a handy spot that includes some main branch material.

2) Find a different repairman. Anyone ignorant enough to suggest a horn is lacquered prior to soldering, I wouldn't let change a water key cork. I have a lot more to learn about instrument repair myself, but brass repair remedial (Not even 101) will tell you solder won't stick to lacquer.

3) Tuba manufactures just can't win. If you over brace a horn, you end up with a extra heavy and dead sounding horn. Too light and someone can more easily break it.

Glad to hear that WWBW got you a new one. Just be careful with it. Even a hammer can be ruined if you aren't careful.

[Dan Schultz]

I visited WWBW a few months back and had a chance to have a good look at the 1291. I immediately recognized that the thumbring and 'extra tube' configuration would never be appropriate for a school environment. I was frankly quite surprised that Miraphone did it that way compared to the other Miraphones I am more familiar with (183, 184, & 186).
The tech's remark about the horn being soldered after it was lacquered was a stupid thing to say. However, it has been a common practice for some manufacturers to buff and lacquer valvesets as a sub-assembly prior to being attached to the rest of the horn. Surely Miraphone would be smart enough to mask the areas to be soldered IF they do this.

[TubaTodd]

A touch off topic...

Ya know.......TubeNet is truly remarkable. It is amazing that in this forum you can post comments about anything and get a real expert to chime in. I know Mr. Baer frequently posts to TubeNet, but it is amazing that one of the most talented tubists in the world, would take the time out of his schedule to comment on and ACT on a concern of a fellow tubist.

GO TUBENET and GO ALAN BAER!

[Tubaryan12]

what real purpose did it serve to rehash it publicly?

He at least found out that his repairman has a questionable theory

besides...we all know that once the question was posted (no matter which way he did it) the usual line of questioning would have followed along with the "the store / manufacturer should do something about it" blasts. He just cleared all that up in the beginning The only thing he spoke badly of in any way was Miraphone.

p.s. ... Fords Suck! man...are you tuba guys touchy

[Chuck(G)]

I know that there are EU regs on the books now mandating the elimination of lead-bearing solder from electronics. Perchance has Miraphone moved to using lead-free solder in their instruments? If so, this could explain a lot--lead-free alloys simply don't behave the same way as the traditional lead-bearing solders do. It could be a learning curve thing...

Just a weird wild idea straight out of left field...

[winston]

.

[Tubaryan12]

I'm a Ford man driving a GMC. What gives?

just a jab at the car guys that have the sticker on the back of their vehicles....you know ... characters relieving themselves on the other guy's logo (be it Ford or Chevy)... tuba players are like that too

[Tabor]

I wonder how loud someone has to play and at what frequency to shake a Mirafone apart. I haven't done it yet.


Tabor

[Roger Lewis]

Sorry if I took the comments personally. When I read your post I thought you were having a problem with the new horn that I had shipped to you. Miraphone has added an additional brace to this area of the horn on the newer models since it has happened to several of these instruments and they are firmly standing behind those people who are experiencing problems and making sure that everything is set right for the customer. I have only received the ones with the additional bracing in silver, otherwise I would have sent one with the extra brace.

I have never had any problem with the responsiveness of the wonderful Miraphone staff when there has been an issue. As far as I am concerned, they are a world class operation.

Pardon my jumping to conclusions on this.

[king2ba]

Miraphone has been contacted with these problems as were you, and the problem was resolved, so I really dont understand why it sems to offended you why I asked on here if anyone else with the horn had any of these problems.

Ahhhhh.....if you knew the kind of A$$H#$% that Roger works for, you would probably understand his reaction better. Don't sweat it!

Al, you know I love you to death, but let's face it....if Miraphone had ANY idea.....even a TINY LITTLE ONE.....that you were going to use a specific horn to play in the Phil, they would kill themselves trying to make it PERFECT! Hell, even I used to play through 10 different horns before I would send one to one of your students. The rest of us mortals can get a bad horn every now and then.

Now, that I don't sell instruments for a living anymore, I can honestly say that I don't see anything wrong with how this post was made.

As everyone has said, there is no way the horn was lacquered before it was soldered together. I've been to the plant, too and the assembly room is at the opposite end of the building from lacquering. Miraphone also has a really cool GIANT dishwasher type thing that is used to clean the horn before lacquering. The "dishwasher" is so big because the horns are completely assembled when they go in there.

The honest truth is that when you have a problem with a horn you really do need to be specific about where you bought it. You DO need all the extra info. The people that make these instruments make them in batches. When Woodwind and Brasswind would order Miraphone 186's they would order 100 or so for the year. They would usually show up in groups of 20 or so. If the same problem showed up multiple times on horns from that shipment, there might possibly have been something wrong.

Miraphone has had issues in the past with mass numbers of horns having "problems". I can't tell you how many HUNDREDS of metal replacement linkages I had to send out due to the black plastic ones cracking. The fact is that Miraphone WILL take care of the customer, but they are a business first. They need to see proof that there is a major problem before they can act. This is why specific info. is so important, and sometimes it takes a company seeing their name in print on the internet to get them to act.

Another thing to think about. If Matt Walters, Dave Fedderly, Jeff and Neil, Vince, Tony C. etc can see what is happening to instruments on the market, they are able to contact one another to help manufacturers fix problems. Jupiter and Besson both had valve problems in the past that took a few dealers seeing the problems to get a permanent fix. One dealer alone couldn't have convinced a major company that there was a problem. Even one dealer the size of Woodwind and Brasswind. God, I hope George isn't still the Jupiter dealer....he knew squat about his products!

Anyway....enough thoughts from this part of the world!

Cheers!

[windshieldbug]

I was raised on Yamahas

Must've been painful... wait, is there a Yamahas, Texas?

[CJ Krause]

yup

[CJ Krause]

yup

[Tubaryan12]

Man i would love to meet you,,, lol
we think way too much alike

I'm not high enough on the food chain at work to justify a 3 hr. side trip to Carrollton (I'm in glue, not paint), but if I am ever in Temple, TX at the plant I will do what I can to get there.

[phoenix]

I've have my 1291 since July of '04 and the thumb ring and tube are still intact. I used to pick it up by just the thumb ring/tube until i realized how stupid it was. anyway, this was probably just a defect. It happens all the time in the retail world with any brand, no one is perfect.

[windshieldbug]

p.s. ... Fords Suck!

Are those lacquered or silver Fords?

[MartyNeilan]

p.s. ... Fords Suck!

Are those lacquered or silver Fords?

At least we know they are piston Fords. If they were Mazdas, then they could be piston OR rotary!