King fiberglass sousaphone: history & information

[KingBassTrombone]

I just acquired an early-production King 1280 sousaphone. I have a tendency to research new additions to the herd, out of curiosity. My research has led to a series of discoveries regarding the changes in this model over the years. I assume, but cannot confirm, that these changes also happened to the 1250 model. Feel free to correct or add information on any points, I love learning about this stuff. I figure that y'all might be interested to learn this stuff, too.

My sources include the archives of Conn Publications and King publications at http://www.saxophone.org" target="_blank, the sousaphone and history sections of http://www.hnwhite.com" target="_blank, the Makers page on King at http://www.horn-u-copia.net" target="_blank, the Instruments catalog at http://www.conn-selmer.com" target="_blank, a couple old threads here on TubeNet discussing King neck design, and personal observations of my own King 1280.

In mid-late 1963, the King 1280 fiberglass sousaphone began production to compete with the Conn 36K. A 1964 price list indicated that the retail price was the same as the 1250: $760, case not included. These early-production 1280 models had two separate braces for the lower neckpipe, and a full set of top-pull valve slides on the 1st and 3rd valve loops (including both crooks of the classic curly-Q wrap). Interesting to note is that the 1280 was only available with a 26" fiberglass bell, while the 1250 was offered with either a 24" or 26" bell.

Around 1965/66, when King finished moving into their new factory in Eastlake, the design of some instruments were updated. Some models which had fallen out of favor (such as the King 1260 Eb sousaphone) were discontinued. Post-1966 King BBb sousaphones seem to lack the full range of top-pull slides on 1 and 3. Bracing was altered slightly to increase durability, including a half-circle brace for the lower leadpipe. No significant design changes occurred again until 1985.

In 1985, King was acquired by UMI, at which point the model numbers were changed. The 1250 became the 2350, and the 1280 became the 2370. A new model, the 2360 Hybrid (which was simply a 2370 with the brass 2350 bell), was available some time after the acquisition. The Conn and King instrument lines were merged somewhat, meaning that the King 2370 was stenciled to become the new Conn 36K, and the 2350 was stenciled into the Conn 14K. Some design changes occurred to the King sousa line in 1985 as well- the MTS was made narrower to the same width as the lower 1st valve slide. The design of the lower leadpipe and the neck were changed to compensate. The new-style neck has different proportions (shorter and wider) than the old-style (tall and skinny) neck, though the bits remain the same. The 2370 bell was slightly different than the 1280- the 2370 bell has a reinforced rim design, but still remained 26". The hardware mounts for the valve section were moved to increase durability. The 2350 was soon updated to utilize the removable valve section design from the 2370.

Things get a little blurry after the 2004 Conn-Selmer merge. At some point between then and now, the King 2370 was discontinued while the Conn 36K (effectively a King 2370) soldiered on until it too was discontinued. The King 2350 remains the lone wolf of the King lineup, offered by Conn-Selmer as a student-level sousaphone next to the "step-up" model Conn 20K and the more recently released "professional" model Conn 40K.

[iiipopes]

I concur with all the above. When I was in high school in the late '70's, my high school marching band had four of the older souzys as described, which were old then. They were almost as heavy as an actual brass one. (I know - there was one in the back that was about to go out, and when we moved it, you could tell it really wasn't that much heavier than the first generation, thick, real fiberglass ones). They were old enough they had old-style King 25 mouthpieces (the shallower version, not the 26) with them.

[toobagrowl]

There were a couple of old King fiberglass sousas (disassembled) sitting on top of a shelf at the jr. high school my band director friend taught at (now retired). He told me they never used them, they were just sitting up there for years. I think maybe in the distant past they may have used them for parades, but for whatever reason they stopped using them. I should have made an offer on them -- I could have cleaned/fixed them up and flipped them, and/or kept one for myself

I have a feeling there are literally thousands of schools across the US that have sousas and tubas just sitting there, collecting dust; some of them very good horns that just need tlc

[Rick Denney]

I played King fiberglass sousaphones both in junior high school and high school. Both schools were founded in the early 60's, but the white-gel-coated Kings were in their second round of sousaphone purchases. The original sousaphones were made by Conn. I was in junior high school in the early 70's, and these were not new, so they had to have been made in the late 60's.

They were not particularly light, but I never weighed them or compared them to brass sousaphones. Definitely the King .679 bore.

Rick "remembering" Denney

[toobagrowl]

They were not particularly light, but I never weighed them or compared them to brass sousaphones. Definitely the King .679 bore.

Rick "remembering" Denney

You mean the standard King .687" valveset bore

Just for sousa reference, my Elkhart-era Conn 14k is right above 21 lbs, which is light for a brass sousa.
My fiberglass Selmer Signet is around 17.5 lbs, if I remember correctly.
I also weighed a silver Yamaha 411 (Conn 20k-size) at around 28 lbs.

I'm thinking the old H.N. White King 1250 is at least 25 lbs or so I remember it being several pounds heavier than the old Continental Colonial (14k/Pan-American stencil), seemingly almost as heavy as the larger Elkhart-era Conn 20k sousa.