Sluggish first valve: your advice?

[hubert]

When using a tuba with Perinet front valves mostly the first valve becomes sluggish very soon (way before the other valves).
Probably the reason is, that more water gathers in the 1st valve than in the others. It feels like the water is "washing away" the oil.

What is your advice/remedy against this annoying phenomenon? Oiling more often (and accepting more residue and more often cleaning)? Cleaning and oiling more often? Using thicker oil? Something else?

Thanks a lot in advance for your advice.

Best and a Happy New Year,
Hubert

[GeoffC_UK]

In problem solving the first thing I do is list all those things it could be.
What could cause sluggishness in one valve?
Once I have the list, I then ask myself what is the cure?
I start with the cheapest/ easiest cure.
If that don’t work, I move on to the next (and so on).
If all fails I seek specialist advice (which normally means they need the tuba to survey). Geoff

What could it be (in no order)?
- Not using lint free cloths during cleaning or drying.
- Felts degrading, loose debris.
- Internal tuba cleanliness poor.
- Method of cleaning not good.
- Old oil, broken down, past use.
- Valve spring not good.
- Debris or residue stuck in valve casing or upon valve.
- Valve or casing damaged.
- Valve guide needs replacing.
- Valve fit, excessive wear and loss of lubrication.
- Valve not actuated properly over time, uneven wear.
- Another
- Another
- Another

Not all, just a few, but others will add for sure.

Potential cue (example)
If your tuba is old, well-used, where the first valve gets depressed far more than the others in use......
it may suffer from greater wear than the other valves......
so, if you are using a light oil (less viscous) then this may no-longer be the right oil for your horn...
by moving to oil suited for older tubas this may help....
one such oil being Yamaha's "Vintage" piston oil (code: AC VVOX), but I am sure other producers supply more viscous oils.
This may not be your problem or cue (fix) but it gives you the line I'm suggesting.

[hubert]

Thanks, Geoff.
Because the instrument is only a few months old, till now I had limited inside cleaning to wiping and washing/rinsing with my "tuba shower".
Now I have carefully "polished" the valve case inside, it works as I want it to work. Should have done earlier, apparently.
Best,
Hubert

[GeoffC_UK]

Glad to hear, Geoff

[Art Hovey]

When you play a tuba (or any brass instrument) traces of saliva find their way through the mouthpiece and into the instrument. The first thing it encounters is the first valve, so most of it stays there. If you don't rinse it out after playing, it stays there and gradually evaporates, leaving nasty deposits. It seems that less accumulates in the other valves.

[hubert]

Thanks, Art. A lesson to keep in mind.
Hubert

[timothy42b]

When you play a tuba (or any brass instrument) traces of saliva find their way through the mouthpiece and into the instrument. The first thing it encounters is the first valve, so most of it stays there. If you don't rinse it out after playing, it stays there and gradually evaporates, leaving nasty deposits. It seems that less accumulates in the other valves.

This. We tend to think of our instruments filling up with distilled water as our breath condenses. There's probably something to that especially in cold weather, but clearly spit is a large component, or there wouldn't be calcium deposits in horns.

[2ba4t]

Have just this problem I wonder if using a dental mirror would help to spot the areas of vertigris or muck on the inside of the valve casing. I am nervous of really cleaning them incase I take too much off. How, Hubert, did you 'polish' yours?

[hubert]

Hello 2ba4t,

I "dismantled" the valve (removed caps, felts, spring, synthetic valve guide), with the exception of the valve stem and the finger button, spread a bit fine polishpaste (Unipol Metal Polish from Osborn) onto the valve, moved the valve up and down in the case for 2 minutes, wiped the case, the valve and ports thoroughly clean with a linen cloth, mounted the valve caps etc. back as it had to be, oiled it and it worked excellently.

Good luck,
Hubert

[2ba4t]

Thank you very much. I shall try this with an equivalent. I think I shall start with a silver polish which should be gentler and then move on to a brass polish. I am nervous about taking anything off the piston other than dirt. I wonder what they do in the factories and workshops?

[hubert]

The repairmen I know, do the same.
Hubert

[2ba4t]

Thank you.