Experiences with 4 valve compensating BB-Tubas

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:30 pm

There are not that many different BBb compensating piston tubas. I haven't tested the Willson, but neither the Besson 994 nor the Yamaha YBB-931 were after my taste.

The 994 was immensely playable, but both were too restricting in their low range dynamics.

My own BBb tuba is an older York Master with 4 pistons made by BÃ¶hm & Meinl. It is very playable with a big sound. I have a strong suspicion, that the most similar newer model is the B&M BBb tuba, which was marketed by Bob Tucci as lately as 1999.

My favourite BBb bass is my Conn 40K sousaphone with 4 pistons. It has this ekstra something to its big sound, but it is a devil to transport for mere weight reasons.

There are lots of other fine piston BBb tubas out there like the better samples of the new King. And this board holds lots of expertise on this topic.

Klaus

winston · Post by **winston** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:41 pm

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:55 pm

Aussie tuba guru John Szkutko did a comparison between a Besson 994 and a Miraphone 1280 and seemed to come down on the side of the Miraphone:

http://www.tubacentral.com/info/0001.html

(and I believe that the 994 has a 19" bell. Maybe it just looks big because the horn stands so tall).

winston · Post by **winston** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:44 am

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:57 am

"Could you imagine any sort of semi-serious oboist who would buy an oboe with an 'A' that is 8 (much less 25 or more) cents flat?...'Oh, it's pretty easy to lip up, and I have this alternate fingering that works pretty well'..."

Excellent point.

I recently tried finding a good euphonium among eight compensating instruments. The intonation was anywhere from troubling to atrocious in all eight.

I can only guess that the guys winning auditions can find instrument that don't have a seriously flat top line A. I couldn't.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:19 pm

If you don't need the notes in the "gap" between low E and pedal Bb, I'd recommend that you try out an old 3-valve compensating Besson New Standard or Boosey Imperial.

Very easy players with very good intonation; not a trace of "stuffiness".

Mark Preece · Post by **Mark Preece** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:16 pm

I have played a Besson 994 for over 10 years, and although I enjoy the "Besson sound", I do not like the stuffiness of the low register. I also feel that on most of the 994's I have played, there is a serious 1st valve slide problem, and the intonation is really terrible.

Having said that, I was wondering if anyone has had experience with the Mr. Tuba company. Here is an article about his EEb and BBb tubas. It sounds really interesting, and if I had the money, I would seriously be looking into them!

http://www.tubanews.com/articles/contentid-200.html

You can also read the forum thread which discusses this article here:

http://www.tubanews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435

I am interested in hearing your thoughts on these horns.

Regards,

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:23 pm

FWIW:
Rush's Music on Alcoa Highway in Knoxville (865) 573-4138
has one of those TALL Besson 4 valve BBb compensators - three pistons on top and one on the side, full compensating. The horn appears to have had at least a partial, if not full, overhaul done on it. These horns are hard to find, and I was shocked to see one sitting on their showroom floor just waiting to be purchased.
If anyone wants it, just call and ask for Steve (tell him I sent you; my school does all our rental business through him.)

SÃ¸ren · Post by **SÃ¸ren** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:01 pm

I live in Denmark and have a Besson 3+1 compensating BBb for sale. It playes well in tune, and the valves are fine.
Send me an email if you are interested.

dmmorris · Post by **dmmorris** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:49 am

Chuck(G) wrote:If you don't need the notes in the "gap" between low E and pedal Bb, I'd recommend that you try out an old 3-valve compensating Besson New Standard or Boosey Imperial.

Very easy players with very good intonation; not a trace of "stuffiness".

I played a 3-valver like this while I was in college in the '70's. It played WAY BETTER than any of the school's four Conn 21J 4-valvers. I built my own "pre-DEG" tuba stand for it outa some 4x4 mounted on a 2x12. Drilled a hole in the top of the 4x4 for that silly ball on the bottom-bow. Took it to all-state and beat-out a bunch of guys with Miraphone and WSear tubas. Didn't keep me from lusting after one of those Miraphones!, but it was a very good player.

ThomasDodd · Post by **ThomasDodd** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:19 am

Chuck(G) wrote:If you don't need the notes in the "gap" between low E and pedal Bb, I'd recommend that you try out an old 3-valve compensating Besson New Standard or Boosey Imperial.

Very easy players with very good intonation; not a trace of "stuffiness".

Not sure the model, but I played a Besson 3v comp in college. The privliged tones were pretty good too, so not everything between E and Bb is mising. If it was a front action horn, I'd buy one.

They were still being used last6 spring, and I suspect they'll go another 20 years now that the school has some mouthpieces that fit (Kudos to Mike Finn).

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:04 pm

Another horn that might be a possibility is the Courtois Symphonie 182. It looks a bit more compact that the Besson. Other than that, I'm not aware of any test playi reports.

Those old Bessons were really built sturdy, weren't they? Miraphones purchased for the high school 10 years later are ready for the junkpile and on their 2nd bell. The Bessons just keep going.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:26 pm

Jonathantuba wrote:
wnazzaro wrote:
Jonathantuba wrote:I briefly played on the EEb when I visited Mr.Tuba earlier this year. The sound was very similar to a Besson and I would say it played just as well, if not better with its larger bore - although not as well as his rotary valve EEb (MW 2040/5) which I purchased.

The Mr.Tuba BBb with its more compact wrap would be the first model I would check out if I were looking for a compensating 3+1 BBb.
What do the Mr. Tuba tubas cost?
I don't know the BBb cost. You would be best to email Mark Carter (Mr.Tuba) at mark@mrtuba.com . He is very helpful!

I went to the Mr. Tuba website, and it appears to be just selling brands of tubas. I didn't see anything about customization. Was the Eb you bought customized?

MA

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:57 pm

Jonathantuba wrote: 4/4 CC - http://www.tubanews.com/instrument375.html

That thing looks an awfully lot like a 2145, in what way is it different?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:16 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:If you don't need the notes in the "gap" between low E and pedal Bb, I'd recommend that you try out an old 3-valve compensating Besson New Standard or Boosey Imperial.

Very easy players with very good intonation; not a trace of "stuffiness".

I resemble that remark! I prefer my 3-v comp over all of the 4-valves. I don't need anything below the E natural, 3 alone is a truly legimate alternative to 12, and usually better in tune (although I have to play 12 when with other non-comp tubists who don't pull!), and my intonation and range is better with a Wick 1, the mouthpiece designed for it, than any other mouthpiece, including a Wick 2.

tofu · Post by **tofu** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:17 am

I wonder if the folks who find the Bessons stuffy really spend any time with it. Maybe it's just me, but it really takes me a month to get used to a horn. I have a 1971 Besson New Standard 3 valve comp as well as other "free blowing" horns.

Yes the Besson is not as free blowing, but that is more than manageable once you figure out how to play the horn. I have never played anything that just nails notes like this thing. Notes are in tune and just so easily centered. I wonder if that is helped by the fact that these things are not "free blowing". This thing just plays so easily both low (all the way down to low E natural and high (Eb above the staff) with a real sweet middle money section.

My only gripes are ergonomics and it's a top loader AND while it is built like a tank it also WEIGHS about as much.

The gripes are pretty minor and these things can be great buys for the money. I believe they are very overlooked by buyers. Maybe they just aren't trendy enough.

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:02 am

Jonathantuba wrote:My only experience of playing a 4 valve compensated Besson BBb was that it is very stuffy and I am used to compensated tubas as I have a Besson 981 EEb. I was also not over impressed with the tone - what I would call gruff.

However my main gripe was the ergonomics. At 6 foot tall I am not small, but I could not reach the 4th valve without really stretching. After half hour playing I had a back ache through the contortions required to reach mouthpiece and 4th valve at the same time. This was one of the 1990's models, so the older ones may well be better.

I find the older (992 as opposed to 994 or 994GS) a lot better in tune, a lot easier to play (concert model leadpipe, same as the 981) and generally more manageable. I regularly play all 3 models, but always resort to my 992.

I use it for everything I do, from quintet to Mahler, via brass and big bands and shows (doing Crazy for You on it this week) and it serves me ideally. And yes, I have tried most of the others, including rotaries etc.