How does playing low help our high range?

[David]

I don't really think you can adequately sum up something like this in under a page.... but here's my best shot....

You can use force to play in the high register by pinching your lips together very hard. This is a common first approach to playing high. It won't be in tune, range jumps will be difficult and uncertain and it sounds strained. Playing high well isnt done this way. Its not about force.

It just so happens that the hallmark of good low, but more importantly, pedal register playing is 'lack of force'. Specifically, an unstrained lip and a steady, relaxed air supply. It's impossible to force good pedal playing. As it happens, its impossible to force good playing in any range. You must use as little force as possible. So, in answer to your question, playing in the low/pedal register is great for your playing overall because it teaches you exactly that.

Also, chromatic octave slurs help this 'no force' approach: G below staff to G on staff, Ab to Ab above, A to A above ect until you reach to the top of where your comfortable, then start from the bottom again.

And word on high playing itself.....

From high to low range, the physical force you use should be the same. There is only one difference:as you play higher, the air presure increases. Note, that does not mean 'air force', or 'smiling face crunch.' You just need to firm up the lips a little, to shrink the air column. Same volume of air, just moving faster and a little pressurized. It has nothing at all to do with lip strength, or 'power of lip', or any garbage like that.


Once you've learned to play with as little force as possible, (aka correctly) actually working at playing high does wonders for improving your high playing.....

so...


-pedals teach 'no force', this is helps every register
-chromatic octave slurs help to
-just firm the lips when playing higer, don't pinch them(this will make sence after some practice)
-actually play high, once you've got no force behind it

Hope that helps

[windshieldbug]

Its not about force

What David said is the way I was taught. Text over the web isn't a good way to communicate aural principals. See if you can find a decent teacher, and get a lesson or two to make sure you are applying these concepts correctly. But they do work!

[MaryAnn]

I will add that if you haven't got it figured out, it will be basically impossible. And that playing low with an incorrect embouchure will not help you to play high; you can produce low notes with an incorrect embouchure, and play them all day long, and it won't help.

Go back and find all Roger Lewis' posts about range, and study them.
I've had three different good tuba players show me how they play high, and they all three did it the same. Hmmmm. (It's all in Roger's posts.)

MA

[Rick Denney]

I will add that if you haven't got it figured out, it will be basically impossible. And that playing low with an incorrect embouchure will not help you to play high; you can produce low notes with an incorrect embouchure, and play them all day long, and it won't help.

Go back and find all Roger Lewis' posts about range, and study them.
I've had three different good tuba players show me how they play high, and they all three did it the same. Hmmmm. (It's all in Roger's posts.)

MA

I agree with all of the above, however, I will say that most players (myself included) just don't move enough air to support the vibration of their lips, and this shows up at both extremes of the range. The low register is forgiving only to the extent that one accepts a thin sound. But playing low to improve the upper register means playing low, not just, say, below the staff. It means extended your range downward in order to extend it upward. Doing both requires better air flow and a stronger embouchure, but developing it down low doesn't do the muscle damage if you overdo it like playing high with too much pressure.

Following Roger's excellent advice for playing up high will not work if the air flow won't support the vibration of the lips.

Rick "who finds that what one learns to extend the lower register isn't that different from what one must know to extend the upper register" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Actually, about my high range, I can play up to B-flat4 without much problem doing octave slurs. The problem comes when trying to play up to those notes. Like if I was doing a scale from F to F, or G to G above the staff it wouldn't happen. The notes just stop before F.

Please do follow the link to Roger Lewis's discussion on this that Mary Ann provided. I believe it will help you with what you describe.

Rick "who fishes in shallower waters" Denney

[David]

I agree with you MaryAnn

"Playing low with an incorrect embouchure will NOT help you to play high; you can produce low notes with an incorrect embouchure, and play them all day long, and it won't help." That is why I said playing in the mainly in the pedal, not just the low, register is best for improving high playing. There is quite a difference. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough...

And as for embouchure, I dare anyone to play well, (in tune, with a full and open sound) in the pedal range (im not talking just to the pedal BBb) with poor emboucher. You can't do it. Though I think ever poster after seems to feel the same way....


And as far as how to actually play in the lower register, my former teacher says it best:

"allow the jaw to move down and forward, raise the mouthpiece slightly (if required), relax the chips, and blow a steady stream of air. Slow air speed is very important in extending the range down....puffing out your cheeks is [incorrect]... All that does is tighten up your lips and give you less control.... If you're doing it correctly, your nose will tickle."

[ufoneum]

One of the reasons that I believe we are told to practice "low" to get "high" is that we have to flow the maximum amount of air in the low range - no matter euph or tuba. With the air in check - and flowing correctly - the mind will tell the body what to do. Now, you still have to practice, but work on the air - not the face...

[tuba_bloke]

Does this mean playing high will improve my low range...

[happyroman]

This is a little bit off topic, but is a helpful way to think about development of high and/or low register playing.

Develop excellence in the middle register at a middle dynamic using lots of air. These are referred to by Mr. Jacobs as the "norms" and are the areas where playing is (or should be) easiest. As one develops excellence here, that can/should be transferred gradually to the extremes (both high/low and loud/soft).

Mr. Jacobs recommended 80-90% of practice in the norms and 10-20% in the extremes. He especially warned about too much extreme high register playing. It is very easy to develop bad habits as one gets fatigued.

[MaryAnn]

What's interesting is that I seem to have a "full range" on tuba, but for years now I've been listening to all kinds of advice, and getting lessons from all kinds of people, on how to play the high range of the French horn. I can play below pedal C on the horn, so low range is not a problem; I'm something of a low horn specialist (prefer 2nd and 4th parts) and have never had more than the "occasional" high range.

So I'm very sympathetic to the original poster's dilemma. I've tried Roger's techniques for high range on horn (he says it works on any brass insrtument) ... and nada, nothing. Squeaks at best. If I work on high range, it gets worse, not better. I feel lucky to have a G on top of the staff, but if I try to play 1st horn in a group (which is sometimes requested because of my other skills) it kills me but quick. I think there are three things required: 1) proper embouchure 2) proper air supply/flow and 3) proper musculature. People for whom lifting 50 pounds is easy, don't understand those of us who can do it but it uses 100% of our capability; the former can lift 50 lb bags of cement for a couple hours, and the latter can do it once. I think some of the high range is in that category....some people have the musculature to do it, and others don't.

MA

[Leland]

There's a trumpet book called something like "Double High C In Thirty Days" that has probably half of its exercises well below the staff.

I really don't know the name for sure, but I swear that I saw such a book, and I was definitely surprised by how much of it had multiple ledger lines below the staff.

[Dylan King]

It is more in the ear than one might think. Try playing the same note on a trumpet or trombone, or even on a piano. A player must "know they can do it" before they can be proficient. Imagine the sound of another tubist playing, and play exactly that. Even better, imagine your sound and play it.

Hear the note. Here the tone and timbre of the sound. It seems to me so many people work so much on high register "feeling right", and having it right in the chops, that they forget the music, forget the sound. The sound, and your confidence in that sound is key!

Hear first. Go for it. If it doesn't work, hear again. Experiment. Try different emouchures until it works. If you can really hear it, you will be able to play it!

If you can't ever hear it, you might as well look like a hippy and play guitar or something.

[corbasse]

.....
So I'm very sympathetic to the original poster's dilemma. I've tried Roger's techniques for high range on horn (he says it works on any brass insrtument) ...
MA

When I started tuba I was shocked by some of the advice given to me to accomplish certain things.
There were quite a few things that I'd been expressly forbidden to do on french horn, and I had spent a lot of time unlearning them when starting that instrument. Now I'm trying to re-learn them, and not letting them get in the way of the horn playing.

[nimrod480]

Well, i've just read it all, and I too am looking to increase my range.
i can now play up to a Bb to and up to a G to sound good.

two years ago i couldnt play and sound good above the C then i did this kind of practice.

i went two octaves down from my highest note at the point and started playing long notes and going up a step every time i run out of air.
i did it every day for about 10-15 minutes and after about a month or so i got to a High F to sound good.

now i want to extended a little further my range so im going to do the same, i hope it'll work for you too.

[Lew]

Does this mean playing high will improve my low range...

I find that all my playing sounds better, at least to me, when I play high.

[Donn]

I'm relatively new here. Please permit me this one stupid question: what does "high G" mean?

The highest note I think I have ever seen in ordinary band parts is an Ab at the top of the bass clef, and it sure seems reasonable to me to call the G right below it high G. Of course any G above that would have to also be high, but it seems to me immaterial whether one could play that on a tuba, because there wouldn't be much call for it?

[David]

"High G" in this case, is just what you guessed: g just below top of the staff in the base clef

[Donn]

Thanks! In that case, if I can make an observation from the very amateur perspective --

I think of my tuba playing career in two parts. The first one ended with me burdened with two really big Bb tubas that were not a lot of fun to play, at least in a practice type situation, and some saxophones that I played a lot better and enjoyed more. The second began recently with purchase of a $200 very used Italian Eb tuba that is a kick in the butt to play. And subsequently an old F helicon that is also fun and maybe more useful.

Naturally, these high notes are easier to play on these horns, even with the same mouthpiece, because there aren't so many partials lurking nearby. But to my surprise, when I go back to the remaining Bb tuba, I think I notice an improvement there too, where I used to find these notes really frustrating (or even lower, towards the end of a show.) Basically, it seems to me I finally am taking the easy and fun route to learning to play high. I wish I had started with a small Eb tuba.

[MaryAnn]

Well, we had a fairly impromptu meeting of the horn club last night; by luck and preference I ended up on the 5th (lowest) horn parts for most of the evening, so I got to blatt in the tuba range for an hour and a half, with occasional excursions into the treble clef.

Then when we were done, I blasted out a couple of high C's for my good friends, to show them that I could indeed also play this note that they had been screeching away at all evening. So for me, playing only the low range all night helps me to still have a high range at the end of the night. I can virtually guarantee that playing only the high range all evening, will not help me to still have one at the end, although I do find that I will still have a low range no matter what I've done all evening.


MA