BQ...Bass Tbone -vs- Tuba

[USStuba04]

what do you guys think?
does bass tbone or tuba sound better in a brass quintet?
what was most of the literature intended for?

i was chating a few days ago with some buddies and we got into this one...


flame away...

please give explations with your answers!

[Matt G]

It really depends.

[Rick Denney]

what do you guys think?
does bass tbone or tuba sound better in a brass quintet?
what was most of the literature intended for?

Most of the literature that was actually written for quintet was written for tuba, just like it says in the upper left corner.

Renaissance and Baroque music written for brass choir (Gabrieli, etc.) was written for trombones, given that tubas didn't exist at the time. But valved trumpets and French horns didn't exist, either. So, if you get prickly about using a trombone, then ask the trumpet players to bring their natural trumpets and the horn player to bring a natural horn. That should shut them up, heh, heh.

When I play early literature in quintet, I used my Yamaha 621 F tuba, which will double a trombone part quite effectively with a shallow mouthpiece. And I have a trombone concept in my brain rather than going for a big, bloomy tuba sound.

For much literature written specifically for modern quintet, however, the tuba part is a distinct voice and needs to be acoustically separate from the trombone.

Rick "who thinks it will be hard to get many trombone votes on a tuba forum" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

Matt's reply was the best, I think. It depends.

For example, the Ewald quintets were orginally scored for cornets, tenorhorn, euphonium and tuba. I think they sound better this way.

On the other hand, there are many jazz charts that just scream for a bass trombone (and maybe a trombone in place of the horn).

Generally, when a largish contrabass tuba is used, the sound is, like Joe says, just too different, so I would stick with a bass tuba (Eb or F) and maybe a small one at that.

I like to think of brass quintets as being brass choir music where a smooth blend of voices adds to the character of the work. On the other hand, woodwind quintets are more like 5 soloists--their character depends much on the difference in the sound of the voices.

It's strange that I don't hear much fretting about this from the other players. (e.g. "Would this sound better on cornet?" or "Maybe I should be playing euphonium instead of trombone?')

[Allen]

The answer: "It depends." is, of course, the only correct one. I should think that availability of instruments would have a strong influence on the choices.

When I was a kid, the notion of a standardized brass quintet had not arrived. One thing that was popular was a brass sextet, consisting of trumpet, cornet, (French) horn, tenor trombone, euphonium, and tuba. It had a good balance of conical and cylindrical instruments, and much more of a varied tonal palette than the modern brass quintet. I get tired of the over-representation of trumpets in the modern quintet.

Regarding older literature such as Gabrielli, all of the instruments sounded completely different from modern ones. Modern trombones do not sound like the old trombones at all. The old cornettos also didn't sound like any modern instruments. Mainly, the old trombones and cornettos blended well with each other, and made an excellent reinforcement for the choir. Once you have attended some concerts using these instruments, with musicians who understand both the instruments and that era, you will be spoiled. Then, typical modern instrument renditions of Gabrielli and his contemporaries will sound strident, raucous and in abysmal taste.

Allen Walker

[windshieldbug]

I always liked to use a small CC contrabass like my Mirafone 184; With that kind of horn you could meet almost any sound requirement and still play almost any music.

[MikeMason]

early empire brass recordings with Sam Pilafian. Bill Bell model and later a 2145 i think. the epitome of what it should sound like to me.you'll never get me to vote for a bass tbone.ever...

[Lew]

...

It's strange that I don't hear much fretting about this from the other players. (e.g. "Would this sound better on cornet?" or "Maybe I should be playing euphonium instead of trombone?')

Good point, especially when it comes to cornets. Why would a band with 14 trumpet players playing both cornet and trumpet parts only use trumpets? I expect it's because that's what they own, and that's what they learned on, but it would be nice to hear the different timbre of cornets on the cornet parts.

The nice, mellow sound of a tuba, even a bass tuba, provides a nice contrast in a quintet to the bright brassy sound of trumpets and trombones. It tends to level out the sound in my opinion.

[tubacdk]

definitely tuba, but not a big tuba. chamber music is chamber music, and a big ol' contrabass is just not a chamber music type instrument. imagine a string quartet with a double bass in place of the cello. I use a B&S F tuba because it blends well with the trombone when it needs to, but it also has its own tuba-istic voice.

[IkeH]

I like the way my Piggy sounds with a quintet. In talking with Craig Knox(w/the Center City Qnt), I told him I liked the way the tuba sounded when they played the standard rep material on the 1st CD. He used his old piggy and the quintet was recorded in a church using ambient mics. The horn gives a nice fat, cushy but compact bottom end with good presence.

Ike