Limited budget plus repair skills=what horn?

[cheburashka]

I've finally given up on being able to play an Eb tuba well. Too many years playing a Bb euphonium have tuned my fingerings to the note I'm hearing, especially when I'm doing improvised bass lines. I'm looking for a playable worthwhile BBb horn on Ebay--yes, I've had pretty good luck there. I'm currently looking to spend a windfall amount from a horn that I resold. With a budget of around $400 or less, I find the pickings for BBb horns pretty slim. At present the only offerings are an Amati and a Coufsnon (sic). Neither is a very good quality horn. Is either even worth the trouble? Is Amati still using the same chrome on their valves that's used on silver cake decorations? Is there a particular horn I should be looking for? I'm able to do some repair and rehabilitation (i.e. building a complete valve branch for my Eb from brass tubing), and cosmetic concerns are absolutely unimportant. Suggestions?

[Dan Schultz]

It's going to be tough finding a solid BBb tuba for $400. I've picked up a few beaters for less than your budget but all of them required a ton of work. There were a couple of Olds 0-99 (three front pistons) that went for about that amount but I think they required quite a bit of work.

[Chuck(G)]

Try looking for a bell-front BBb. These can often be had for very much less than an upright model. You may not get one for $400, but you'll come closer.

[Mark]

You could try giving Oberloh's shop a call, http://www.oberloh.com. They sometimes have "bargain" instruments that are not listed on the web site.

[cheburashka]

I kind of figure, if Oberloh's doesn't think it's worth putting the time in to fix, it probably isn't worth fixing.

[Alex F]

That's not always the case. Dan, like most top notch repair folks, has much more stuff laying around than he can handle. He's certainly worth a call and you can be assured he will give you an honest assesment of whatever he may have in stock.

[cjk]

I've played a Chinese built copy of a B&S model 4 rotor BBb which used to be stenciled as Gerhard Schneider or Giardinelli or many others.

It wasn't bad at all.

Don't knock it until you've tried several.

To the original poster, I'd be looking for a 3 valve Olds 099.

[Donn]

I like the Olds myself, a battered one having been my first tuba. Look out for broken valve stems. I wouldn't be so put off by a French horn, though. I mean, for a couple hundred bucks, we're making some compromises in any case. The nice thing about the one I was looking at there, it was for sale by owner, not Mr. "Look at pics, I don't play." I've had a little success getting people to show or send pictures of the pistons, if you think they might be worn.

Of course someone who's hot to switch from Eb tuba to BBb, might be able to swing a trade and save the $400 for something else, if the Eb isn't already the source of that $400. Not with me, though, already have one.

[cheburashka]

What's up with the Olds 0-99s? Why do they go cheaper than other tubas? I've seen this as well on Ebay.

I play an Olds valve trombone and the valve plating and overall build quality seem fine. I'd assume the tuba to be similar in quality.

Is the 0-99 a full size, or 3/4? What's the bore on these?

And yes, I have been tempted by the fancy new objects on Ebay, but I've read enough to know better. I insist on branded American junk, and I know that the Machiavelli would Makee-a-velli good plant stand. I would like to know whether the Olds is a copy of the Selman, though.

[iiipopes]

I got my Besson for $401 off ebay including shipping, but it was a liquidation from a rental agency and it ain't purty. I still had to spend a few bucks getting the spit keys new springs and corks, and I had been looking for months. Consider raising your budget to $600 to $750, so you can include taking care of little nits that may not be apparent at first glance, or, as in my case, I was well informed by the seller, so I knew I had to budget the extra going in.

[Donn]

What's up with the Olds 0-99s? Why do they go cheaper than other tubas? I've seen this as well on Ebay.

Not sure they do. My impression is they can bring more than a Reynolds in similar condition, maybe more than $800 for less than pristine condition. Hard to tell much from on-line auctions, folks have to be a little nuts to participate and you never know exactly what will spook them. Mine was a likeable instrument, but more light weight than exceptionally solid. They get all dented up, the valve stems get broken, the lacquer is toast, there's reddish corrosion all over. Worth looking at, but I wouldn't say necessarily worth waiting for.

Is the 0-99 a full size, or 3/4? What's the bore on these?

3/4. I forget the bore size, something like .670. Bach Mercedes is the same thing, or at least the direct descendent.

[Chuck(G)]

3/4. I forget the bore size, something like .670. Bach Mercedes is the same thing, or at least the direct descendent.

I think it's 0.651--just a smidge smaller than the York 0.655. A very nice playing horn for a 3/4 IMOHO.

[Mike Finn]

I Love my O-99, of course it's a custom job that Chuck put together for me, not your typical e-Bay fare. A specially tapered lead-pipe, and the (slightly shorter and wider) bell from a Conn 3J. Perfect horn for quintet and Jazz, and it held its own this summer in the concert band too. I guess you could call it a "Frank 'n' Conn" BTW, it's almost a 7/8 size, maybe more like a 5/6.
To address the original question, I would definitely consider one of these or a King 1140.
MF

[cheburashka]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7355159747

Yeah, it's ugly. I know it's ugly. I know that anything I get from Ebay will be ugly and I've fixed worse. Looks about like what my Eb looked like when I got it.

Is this really a BBb? Anyone know the bore of these? Anyone shouting "Stay Away"???

That Olds 98 Upright sure is pretty. What do you think that's worth?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7356008676

[Dan Schultz]

That Olds 98 Upright sure is pretty. What do you think that's worth? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7356008676

I think this Olds might be like one I sold a year or so ago. At 47" tall, this is one TALL horn!

BTW... one reason why the 0-099 tubas on Ebay were going for cheap is that at least one of them was missing a piston. I would have only bid on that one for parts. Pistons for the Olds horns are getting pretty scarce. The stocks at Allied are gone.

[cheburashka]

Yep, that's one tall bell. About the same length as a sousaphone bell, only straight. Why if you were to put it on a sousaphone you'd get. . .

Awwww. Don't tell me somebody's going to buy this fine old horn just to create another Helicabomination. I've seen Olds upright bells used for this before.

I plan to bid, and to bid high. Higher than my previously-stated limit. Lots higher. Just so's I don't get into a bidding war with anyone who has a tendency to buy things like this just for the bell, I imagine a hostage trade could be worked out. I'd be mighty happy with it as a bell-front horn too.

[Donn]

Well, I don't want to talk about auctions that are under way, but you sure have different tastes in these matters. Patience will be rewarded. Who knows, something truly worth working on could show up tomorrow. Like this old whale of a helicon, maybe Russian? just ended a couple days ago -- http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Helicon-TUB ... dZViewItem

[cheburashka]

In fact, I was intrigued enough to bid on it. However, at $150 shipping, I didn't want to go too high. Plus it's a complete monster. I'm certain I don't have enough wind yet to fill that thing.

Yeah, I know, I'm all over the map on horns. I remember back in High School when I first discovered girls. I knew exactly what I wanted, but I couldn't have that. However, I knew that I could learn a lot from virtually anyone who was willing to let me--uh--blow into her and play with her valves--if you know what I mean.

Yes, I wasted a lot of money, and I discovered that there were a lot of nasty "instruments" out there that didn't respond no matter how good my technique, but I sure had fun.


Isn't midlife crisis interesting??

[ThomasDodd]

3/4. I forget the bore size, something like .670. Bach Mercedes is the same thing, or at least the direct descendent.

I think it's 0.651--just a smidge smaller than the York 0.655. A very nice playing horn for a 3/4 IMOHO.

Every place I've seen it published, it's 0.656. I remember measuring the valve slilde I.D. as matching.

The Bach Mercedes is the same horn. They bough the tooling at some point, after Olds closed shop.

I've always seen it called 7/8 size, a little bigger than a 3/4, but not quite 4/4. I would only trade mine for a 4 valve verson (O-991?). Small, light, good intonation, versitile horn.

[Dan Schultz]

I think the Olds 0-99 is a great little horn. I don't currently have one but there have been several come throught the shop in the last year or so. About the only problem I see with them is that parts are in short supply. Last time I checked, there were no pistons available any more.

As far as the King 1140 is concerned... I don't like 'em. The bracing seems quite flimsy. Of course, most of the Kings I see have had the living hell beat out of them by school kids. I'll take the Olds 0-99 over the King 1140 in the same condition any day.