High register mouthpiece trick?

[Tubaguyjoe]

Im having some trouble with my extreme high register(F above the staff and on), ive got a new teacher who suggested physically moving your mouth to the lower end of the mouthpiece to get this smaller embochure. I always did this little "trick" in high school just to play high and be silly, but this teacher is suggesting that it actually works and you can do it. Ive heard not so good things from previous teachers about this technique and im a little skeptikal. It changes my tone into something I dont really like, im wondering if this is a common technique. My teacher is fantastic tuba player and this trick works for him, im just curious what you all think. Thanks. -Joe

[Tom]

This sounds a lot like the "Pivot System" that Dr. Donald Reinhardt wrote about and advocated in his book Encyclopedia of the Pivot System.

The system basically involves pivoting up and down as you play throughout the range, which seems to be what you're describing.

If your tone suffers, either keep working on it or find a different way to get better results. I believe that the way you do things (physically) only matters to a certain extent because the sound is ultimately what it is all about...if you have to play totally off center (as I've heard a famous former CSO trumpeter did) to sound like a million bucks, do it.

[happyroman]

There's an interesting anecdote in the book, Song and Wind, about this very thing. While at Curtis, Mr. Jacobs was having trouble with the high G in a Berlioz Overture (Benvenutto Cellini?). Anyway, Mr. Donatelli told him to do this manuver, which allowed Mr. Jacobs to hit not only the high G, but the G an octave higher as well.

What is happening physically is that you are rolling or curling the lower lip inward somewhat and playing on the tighter, faster vibrating tissues.

However, the bottom of the mouthpiece cup doesn't really move, it stays more or less anchored to the same spot on the lower lip. Then, as you descend, the jaw drops, and you appear to be playing more toward the center of the cup (i.e., closer to the equator).

If you practice this on the mouthpiece alone, always working for a nice full buzz throughout the register, everything will happen quite naturally. The main thing is to remember that you are ALLOWING the physical changes to take place when you produce the high and low notes. The pitch changes are not the RESULT of the changes in placement.

[iiipopes]

And as always, keep the corners of the lips firm, the airstream steady, and use as little pressure as possible consistent with keeping good contact on the embouchure.

Yes, I occasionally use the technique. I pivot the mouthpiece up as my upper lip is better at the higher range than is my lower lip, which effectively is firmed to provide more steady air on the upper lip.

This is also what the asymmetric mouthpiece for trumpets and the technique of placing the tip of your tongue up against the back of the lower lip and articulating with a little bit of arch in the tongue are trying to get at.

[MikeMason]

how much pressure should you use? just enough. i learned this in sales training but it works for high register tuba playing too...

[tubatooter1940]

Mikemason,

As a former salesman,I appreciate your statement and find I agree with you completely.

[MaryAnn]

Assuming you actually mean "move" the mouthpiece, um....I do this and am not proud of it. If you have to skip ranges quickly, you will find out, also quickly, that it pretty much falls apart. It also requires playing "wet" because you can't scoot the mpc on dry lips. By moving the mouthpiece up towards my nose for the very high notes, I can pin my lower lip with the rim, which gives me the stability I need to make those notes sound. It also happens to correlate really well with my horn embouchure, at least on the lower lip. Of course the horn mouthpiece does not bonk my nose like the tuba mouthpiece does when I scoot it up.

I'd rather see you learn to roll your lower lip under towards your teeth to play high, as Roger Lewis describes so well in some of his posts.

MA