small old Eb tubas

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:47 am

Bob1062 wrote:http://stores.ebay.com/Leisuretime-Musi ... idZ2QQtZkm

Ah hah, there we go.
I am partial to the front action Lyon, if I spent any money on the horn it would be to get a 4-valve block and this is already front action.

Dare I assume that most of these Ebs are small shank?
Dare I further assume that my ("long-shank") Schilke 60 bass trombone mouthpiece will work in these?

The Lyon & Healy looks like a descent horn. I've had many Eb tubas and the mix of small/regular shank receivers seems to run in favor of the regular sized ones. It's not likely your bass trombone MP will work. The shank may fit but the cup will be way too small. In reality, many Eb tubas are very similar in conical size to other tubas. It's just that the open bugle tubing is about 4 1/2 feet shorter than an BBb tuba.

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:05 pm

Bob1062 wrote:I am particularly interested in the Lyon and healy, Hawkes and son, and pan american tubas he has.

Don't forget the "high pitch" issue. You might be able to rule that out if you can pin down the date of manufacture, but I believe this seller is also able to check pitch. 440 A is a very convenient feature.

My little Italian Eb was advertised with worn pistons, and in fact it isn't a big issue with Hetman's Classic oil - sometimes that works. Doesn't always, though, and then you really have a piece of junk until such time as you want to double your investment with a valve rebuild.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:31 pm

Notes on Early 20th Century Pitch Standards

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:09 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Has anyone tried these?
How bad can they be?

Just keep in mind that "HAYDN MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS are manufactured in Shanghai, China". The pitch may or may not be close. "the case is not the typical case and we rate the case as lower quality. It is more of a carrying case rather than a protective case." Shipping is $159.

kegmcnabb · Post by **kegmcnabb** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:16 pm

I have an Amati Eb for sale. I bought it from Dan Oberloh in March but found an old Reynolds that better suits my needs (bell front for dixie and polkas).

Here's a pic...

Go to the Oberloh site and see his description.
http://www.oberloh.com

I bought for $525...will sell for $450 (plus shipping)!

Not beautiful but functional and a good player. Requires small shank MP.

I will out of town for a couple of days...but back soon if you are interested.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:31 pm

Careful with the L&H--the seller may say that it was built in the USA, but it may not be true. L&H stenciled horns extensively. I've got a little L&H Eb (converted from HP) and the octaves don't even line up. I suspect it was made in France.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:36 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Interesting.
Any thoughts on the Martin, Pan american, or hawkes?
Do these look like decent prices?

Thanks guys.

Well, I don't have information on the Pan American, but (and I know I'm going to get some flack for this) the little Conn-made eefers can be very sweet horns. I've never played a Hawkes and the Eb Martins that I've seen haven't impressed me much.

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:53 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:Careful with the L&H--the seller may say that it was built in the USA, but it may not be true. L&H stenciled horns extensively. I've got a little L&H Eb (converted from HP) and the octaves don't even line up. I suspect it was made in France.

I once in a while play with a guy who has a tiny Lyon & Healy Eb that I thought was made in France - really tiny, about the size of an ordinary euphonium. Seems to me it has an odd textured relief on the bottom bow guard, like for a better grip or something. He plays the heck out of it, considering what a small horn it is.

I suppose the mouthpiece makes a lot of difference to the intonation. I don't know what he uses, it isn't a familiar make.

davet · Post by **davet** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:42 pm

I've never bought from this seller, BUT, when I was interested in a horn he let me drive over there with my tuner and try it (and a bunch of other tubas). I ended up not finding anything to my liking, but the guy was really friendly, and low key about things.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:39 pm

Bob1062 wrote:http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-New-Eb-Tuba-No ... dZViewItem

Has anyone tried these?
How bad can they be?

I had a euph version of one of these POS horns in the shop just a week ago. The 3rd valve was sticking due to shipping (factory ?) damage to the valve circuit. On top of that, the horn played 30 cents flat with everything pushed in. I suppose it could be worse... then again... it wasn't playable the way it was. Bad enough! It doesn't really matter much what name is engraved on the bell.

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:52 pm

Has anyone tried these?
How bad can they be?

I am still considereing an older one over one of these.

That not be a China horn. That be a India. Whole nother fish of kettle. Good horn for you to learn horn repair. Me know. Me got India euph. I work on it. Make it good. It ugly now. But it sound good.

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:04 am

SplatterTone wrote:
Has anyone tried these?
How bad can they be?

I am still considereing an older one over one of these.
That not be a China horn. That be a India. Whole nother fish of kettle. Good horn for you to learn horn repair. Me know. Me got India euph. I work on it. Make it good. It ugly now. But it sound good.

Hope it bring you much happy!

Dean E · Post by **Dean E** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:44 am

Bob1062 wrote:. . . . Any thoughts on the Martin, Pan american, or hawkes? Do these look like decent prices? . . . .

I have a similar 3-valve Pan American (by Conn) Eb, and it is a very nice horn. It easily plays right up the scale to Eb above the staff. With a big mouthpiece, it has a usable range of false tones, and its bottom end can support a medium-size band (30-40 players).

The tuning slide on the for-sale horn appears to be the correct length for A=440. It probably has the original, small shank (bass trombone size) receiver, so Denis Wick mouthpieces 1,2,3,4, or 5 will work well.

The slides do not appear to be dented, but it looks like a lyre holder came off of the first valve tubing. My major concern with the for-sale horn would be the worn valves mentioned by the seller.

A horn in that good of an external condition probably was refurbished at least once, so the metal may be thin in parts.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:21 am

If they are close, as you say, WHY NOT TRY THEM, AND SEE HOW THEY PLAY? That, alone, is the biggest single issue. Then, while you're making up your mind, you can get potential other opinions here. It would be better than going into a test session with preconcieved ideas!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:21 pm

urbie watrous wrote:Anyone know whether Wurlitzer used Conn

Wurlitzer certainly used Conn for other types of instruments. For trombones, for example, Conn had models specifically made for Wurlitzer.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:39 am

Take 'em all... while you're seeing which horn sounds best, take a second to see which mouthpiece they sound best with, for you! (Around the turn of the century, big tuba mouthpieces were much the same size as modern bass trombone mouthpieces)

Dean E · Post by **Dean E** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:42 am

Bob1062 wrote:OK, I have 3 mouthpieces that "could" fit- trombone 1.5G, Schilke 60, and a tuba 24AW american shank.

Does anyone think that I could somewhat fit the 24AW, just for purposes of trying out the instruments? I'm afraid that my trombone mouthpieces might affect pitch, tone...

For the Conn PanAm, I would borrow (possibly from the dealer) a small/trombone shank Denis Wick. DW1 is big (to project the low notes) and DW5 is small, which you may be more accustomed to.

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:48 am

I have an old Eb that was given to me. I would like to find out what it is, and would really like to get it into some playing condtion. It's stamped "Band????" Chicago Illinois. It was flat silver plate with some very elaborate engraving and very fancy work on all of the brace anchors and lower bow protection plate. Unfortunately some "Crafter" got ahold of it and took a disc grinder to much of the surface so she could paint it and make it look cute!!! I am sure that she ruined it for any restorative value, but maybe not so much that it couldn't be made to play better. I have the thing so I can play it and it is a real hoot to play but the upper bow is really heavily dented and I am sure it is causing issues. The lead pipe should probably also be replaced as it was patched to make it play. I would say that it is about the size of a very large euphonium, or a 1/2 tuba if there is such a thing. I can put a trombone mouthpiece in it but it is too small and the tone suffers greatly. I have an intermediate size shaft mouthpiece that is much too small for my regular tubas, but will just start to fit into the lead pipe. It has a cup about half way between a bass trombone and a tuba size and with it, the horn sounds really tuba like. Any clues?? I will measure it, but for now I would guess, 11" bell, maybe 30" tall. Thanks, If there is anywhere that I can find out what it is, someone here will certainly know.
Steve

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:59 am

There have been lots of manufacturers and dealers in Chicago over the years. Is it possible to make out anything more (even partially) from the engraving? "BAND" just sounds like part of 'xxxxxxxx Band Instrument Company', which really won't help much.

Also, is it possible for you to post a picture of the horn? I'm not saying it would, but it MIGHT help people narrow it down.

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:54 am

I will check it out tonight and also try to get accurate measurements. I will try to post a photo also, but I am kind of challenged when it comes to this electronic stuff.
Steve

TubeNet

small old Eb tubas

Re: small old Eb tubas

Here's an Eefer for ya...

Pan American (Conn)

Old Small Eb