Opinions on British Baritones

[euphdude]

Hey Folks,

One of my bands is contemplating ordering a British baritone horn and since I'm known for being fairly saavy with respect to the Internet and low brass equipment, they asked for my input. From my research, the two main manufacturers out there are Besson (what is left of their stock) and Yamaha. As I've never played a British Baritone before, what were your impressions of these instruments?

Thanks.

[iiipopes]

Generally, a British Brass Band Baritone will have a tone that is between a euphonium and a trombone. it tends to play in the middle octave of its range, as it is mostly an accompanimental instrument in that setting. For that reason, most players in Britain purchase the three valve compensated horns, as the lowest notes are rarely played, and with the bore smaller than a euphonium, the low notes do not have the body of tone. Since the middle range is played most, the mouthpieces are generally a bit shallower and more cupped, again a cross between a typical euph mouthpiece and a trombone mouthpiece.

Before you order it, make sure you know what you're going to use it for. Depending on your band, a valve trombone may be more available used and cheaper.

[euphdude]

Before you order it, make sure you know what you're going to use it for. Depending on your band, a valve trombone may be more available used and cheaper.

Absolutely! Yes, this instrument will be used in a British style brass band so clearly a valve trombone would not be a suitable substitute.

[ufoneum]

Euphdude,

I am a euphonium player, but perform on baritone for a wide variety of uses. These range from brass bands to just something a little different in a recital. I too shopped around and came back with two different horns. The Yamaha 621 and the Besson 956. These are two professional line horns that both have their strengths and their weaknesses. I will offer my opinion on these two horns, but keep in mind that one person's opinion should not effect your opinion of these horns. Simply put, you need to play both of them for yourself.

The Yamaha was a nice horn. The wrap was nice, a little difficult to hold (the 4th valve was set a little high for my taste). The main thing that I didn't really care for in this instrument was it was quite stuffy. The instrument did not seem very free blowing in the middle/low register. Normally, this can be worked out with a technician, but I wanted something I wasn't going to have to put a lot of time/money into.

The Besson was also a nice horn. The build quality was what you expect from our friends across the pond. The valves were my main gripe. They were badly in need of an alignment (this could be post production). The horn was very free blowing, as opposed to the Yamaha. Also, I believe that this is the largest baritone being produced. Another gripe was the tuning slide. When you play these - no matter what horn you play, they are going to be "quirky" at best with their tuning. The tubing is simply not big enough and there is a lot of it to produce an even toned instrument. The tuning slide on the 956 is about 1.5 inches long. Not very much wiggle room - especially when you have trumpet players trying to play cornets like trumpets (I am sure a lot of you know what I mean by this).

In the end, I bought a Besson. I think that I made the right decision. I am happy with my purchase, but you need to investigate these two instruments for yourself. Take a trip up to South Bend to the WWBW and try them out for yourself. Get a decent sized baritone mouthpiece (5BS, 6BS) and blow on them for a bit.

Hope this helps.

- Pat Stuckemeyer

[iiipopes]

Willson out of Switzerland also makes a 3-valve comp baritone that is supposed to be a fine instrument.

[Louis]

If your band really wants to have a real brass band sound then 2 baritones are a must. theyfill the gap between the Tenor Horns and the Euphs. They have a different function than the Euphs and are more akin to the horns.

Yes, I think this is a good point. The tenor horns and baritones give the brass band part of its unique, characteristic sound (well, that and having a bunch of cornets instead of trumpets of course). When they start playing a soli section together or something... My, that sound just isn't found anywhere else.

I play a Besson Sovereign 955 and really, really like it. And the other bari player in our brass band just bought a 955 brand new from WWBW. So we match now!

I don't quite see the purpose for the 956 (with the 4th valve).

And like someone else already said, the Wick 4BS, 5BS or 6BS all work really well.

Louis

[imperialbari]

Besson/B&H 3V comp's are pretty cool...I don't know if they are currently made, nor how difficult it is to find a used one that doesn't have worn-out valves. The 3V comp. gadgetry doesn't fill in the range gap in the low range. It "repairs" the intonation of a few pitches and (imo) screws up the pitch of others - so I view this feature as a "nothing-gained/nothing-lost" thing.

I own a 1967 B&H Imperial Brit 3 comp pistons baritone. It is fairly heavy gauge brass (at least compared to the wider belled Sovereign successors). The scale is for specialist, even if I have had the 1st as well as the 3rd slide shortened.

The semitone between notes fingered 1+2 and 2+3 is too wide, as it is impossible to make the involved compensating loop short enough with the given bore (this problem is even more outspoken on 3 valve comp euphs). In the mid-low range I substitute 3 for 1+2.

The 4th partial Gb (fingered 2+3) doesn’t resonate happily, but hard work can compensate for that.

Why have I hung onto this obviously less than ideal instrument as my teaching tool for non-trombonists?

Why has it been a fight to regain this instrument every time it has been loaned out to students or a band fellow (the last incidence, a learning experience about loaning out instruments, nearly ended in court).

It projects like hell, it is extremely supportive in carrying solo lines cum melodies, it takes its player, but it also rewards the right player.

Aside from the Brit members, how many TubeNet’ters have played a solo within a competition piece on the stage of the Royal Albert Hall?

That’s where my 1967 B&H Imp bar took me in 1978.

I have used it for bassbone parts, but it really excelled, when I was asked to play 1st horn parts in local orchestral contexts before I took up the horn later on.

I don’t like the modern Sovereign baritones. The main problem isn’t their much wider bells, but their thin gauge bell metal. They are euphs for wimps. But of course they are easier to play.

The 4 pistons version is an offence towards anybody knowing the basics of instrumental construction and of acoustics.

Do I come out biased? Of course!

If not, somebody would suspect my password having been hacked.

Anyone I know (including me) who has picked up a Yamaha 3V "English baritone" has fallen in love with it. However, no one I know that has one has ever bought one "brand-new", and part of the "love" has consistently been the incredible purchase deals negotiated to buy these (though fairly rarely found) in the used market.

Joe S (did I give away bloke’s identity? Hardly!) is right about the YBH-321. It is a wonderfully reliable student’s instrument, but doesn’t offer the carrying power of a lucky sample of the old Brit bar’s like mine.

Klaus