High Bb in Symphony Fantastique

[quinterbourne]

I've heard some speak of a high Bb (a 7th above middle C) in Symphony Fantastique by Berlioz. I was wondering where it was, because it's not in the part?

I looked at the part and I speculate it is in the fifth movement (Witches' Sabbath) one measure before rehearsal number 85. So, it is "common practice" to play the G, A and Bb up an octave in that measure?

Let me know if I found it... or direct me elsewhere if I didn't.

THANKS!

[phoenix]

that's it! some take those 3 notes up an octave

[tuneitup]

Check the score. It should be written up an octave on the score.

[Leland]

Just one of those licks where the higher notes are easier.

[quinterbourne]

Just one of those licks where the higher notes are easier.

Yeah, I remember practicin' and practicin' that, and it was just so hard to drop down from the high F and hit that G clean and accurately. I guess my teacher didn't tell me in fear of me freaking out that I had to play a high Bb.

[iiipopes]

Remember also that the part was also played on a French C tuba, which looks like a euphonium with a little bit different proportions and up to 6 valves to get the complete semitone range down to pedals.

[Art Hovey]

If you OWN that note then this is about your only chance to use it in the symphonic literature. But that's a big IF. Gene Pokorny says something to that effect on his Orchestral Excerpts CD, and he certainly nails it. I recently played a band transcription of the piece, in the same key. I was able to hit the Fs, but left that lick for the euphoniums to handle. Jumping down the octave is not a problem for me. It would sound better without the jump, but I am not Pokorny.

[MikeMason]

i wonder how a committee would feel about it?...

[quinterbourne]

i wonder how a committee would feel about it?...

I'm sure they would mainly care about it being clean and accurate. They would rather hear it played down accurately than played up inaccurately. However, I'm sure they'd prefer it to be played up accurately than played down accurately.

I suppose if the committee is for a larger symphony, the more likely it is they are looking for it to be played up. If you figure out who is on the committee, that may help you to figure out what they are looking for. It's possible that the committee won't even know that those notes are supposed to be played up an octave - and may be offended by hearing something that isn't in the music sitting in front of them - if they are unaware of Berlioz's original intentions.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I was wondering where it was, because it's not in the part?

It's not in the part because the tuba parts today were the original opheclide (sp?) parts and a high Bb wouldn't be that hard. In auditions, I've always played it up, as long as I was feeling like I could that day. If you've consistently got it, go for it. If not, don't risk it and play as written. In performance, I wouldn't think it would make that much of difference, there's a lot going on in the orchestra there.

Actually, the tubas' lick is the only thing of real importance going on at that moment. The rest of the orchestra is basically playing a 6/8 "boom-chik, boom-chick" accompaniment.

[tubiker]

And the technical instructions for getting up top............



and press

Andrew M

[windshieldbug]

i wonder how a committee would feel about it?...

If you could do either, then just ask them. My experience with committees is don't assume too much. There will be someone there through which you can relay the question (if it's a blind playing), but you'd better be ready to do either if you do ask.

[Steve Marcus]

Who remembers Bill Bell's exact quote re: the "Tuba Man" attempting the high Eb ?

...and then he proceeds to play the low Eb.

[Art Hovey]

The exact quote:
"And now, ladies and gentlemen, hold your hats and keep your seats while the tuba man attempts the death-defying leap from the high E-flat!..."

[Rick Denney]

If you OWN that note then this is about your only chance to use it in the symphonic literature. But that's a big IF.

I don't own that note, though I have been able to borrow it from time to time. I just never know when the owner will want it back.

My bigger problem with that lick (being the hobbyist that I am) is the technique of getting the run articulated cleanly. It's just too fast to single tongue, and too slow to triple-tongue cleanly. Not that I can triple-tongue particularly cleanly.

In the end, it doesn't matter. T'ain't nobody ever gonna ask me to play that particular piece of music.

Rick "for whom the arpeggios three lines down from there are equally as troublesome as that high Bb, depending on the conductor's tempo" Denney

[Rick Denney]

' a lot better than someone who attempts the high Bb in S.F. and then proceeds to play the splatted high out-of-tune G# misfire that rings forever in the hall.

And then when they need that G# in Pictures at an Exhibition it will be nowhere to be found.

Rick "who will attempt any death-defying leap in the privacy of his own practice room" Denney