Oystein Baadsvik

ArnoldGottlieb · Post by **ArnoldGottlieb** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:01 pm

Lesser evil because_____(fill in the blanks). My point exactly.
I'm aware of free downloads, they're on sites that I'm on. It's semantics as to what the original poster was looking for, however I stand by my comments and look forward to your's.
Peace. Arnold S. Gottlieb

brianf · Post by **brianf** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:10 pm

Our friend from Poland has a history here. At viewtopic.php?p=90381&highlight=#90381

he says:

I'm playing on tuba 4th years now i am playing KONZERT FUR TUBA UND KLAVIER A. Lebiediev do you assciete this piece???? I need a record from this piece because I must listen to pattern ,professional perform so I be grateful if someone send tih record on my e-mail /mateusz.tubist@gmail.com/ thanks

Then he says in this thread:

I could not be happy when I spend my money for record my CD and other people will download for free this CD but I could give a few free tracks for example or some kind of promotion...I don't want whol CD....this isn't a crime

Maybe he's getting a lesson on the "sharing" issue. In his first message (which I did remember), he wanted someone to send the record. Then he wants some free cuts - not a crime??? Then there are the samples - something totally different, not shareware but copyrighted material where there is maybe a minute or so samples of a CD cut - I have a ton of them on my site. Permission was granted to put a sample out but the copyright is maintained - it is NOT freeware but a commercial sample.

There were two sides of the old Napster and the free music situation. Yes, there are artists who put their stuff out for free to promote themselves. This would be like a student here putting out a recording of their senior recital. God Bless them!! That is freeware.

The other side are professionals who have CDs and some (like Oystein) are under contract to a recording company. Looking for a recording of them is only asking for one thing - a free copyrighted copy. Yes, the Army Band has a performance and masterclass by him still on their website. Last year I did a lecture there but was wisely advised to insist that it would only be broadcast live and not retained. Holding web broadcasts creates another problem, why would someone want you to do a lecture that is already online?

One thing I have on my website is over an hour long video sampler of Arnold Jacobs. It is a commercial sample, I retain the copyright and rights to it. While I invite all you to look at it for free, it is not freeware.

There is a difference between freeware, commercial samples and copyrighted material.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:19 pm

ArnoldGottlieb wrote:Lesser evil because_____(fill in the blanks). My point exactly.

quinterbourne wrote:I think all anyone may have hinted at that it is a lesser evil to steel a rap product because they're already filthy rich. Nobody was justifying stealing rap music.

I never said it was ok to steal a rap product! I never even said that I think it's a lesser evil, although I do! I think that it is a lesser evil to steal a loaf of break from a millionare - compared to stealing the last loaf of break from a family in poverty - which would be a greater evil.

ArnoldGottlieb wrote:It's semantics as to what the original poster was looking for

It is very clear what the original poster was looking for! He specificially asked for freeware (which he mispelled as freewere) which is NOT stealing and is NOT illegal).

TO MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR:

I DO NOT THINK IT IS OK TO STEAL RAP MUSIC - I NEVER SAID THAT!!!

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:04 pm

I DO NOT THINK IT IS OK TO STEAL RAP MUSIC - I NEVER SAID THAT!!!

Yeah, but you said RAP MUSIC which is even worse
FOR SHAME!!

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:43 pm

SplatterTone wrote:
I DO NOT THINK IT IS OK TO STEAL RAP MUSIC - I NEVER SAID THAT!!!
Yeah, but you said RAP MUSIC which is even worse
FOR SHAME!!

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......

CCCCRRRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!

ArnoldGottlieb · Post by **ArnoldGottlieb** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:49 am

I was well aware of this posters earlier request for free music, on which I don't remember commenting (although it's certainly possible), and therefore felt the need to say something here. Like many of you, I go to work 6 days a week. I'm incredibly lucky that those 6 days involve playing the bass or tuba or both. However it is still work, and one of the things I've done with my money is to invest in instruments, a hard disc recorder, and a lot of travel expenses in hopes of one day making it back. When people want to burn my CD I have to explain why that's not cool, and usually after a while they understand, but explaining it to other musicians just sucks. As artist's, we are unable to exist without support from the luxury budget of the general public. The public, being what they are, need us to educate them as to why they need to buy and not steal recordings, but when we ourselves are not paying, we are telling the public it's okay, and pretty much dooming anybody trying to make a recording in a niche market(exactly what tuba CD's are). The point about stealing bread is well taken, except that bread is needed for survival, and CD's are a luxury item. Stealing a millionaire's Caddy will get you the into the same jail as a musicians honda. I understand the concept of freeware, and for anybody interested in hearing my music I'll happily illustrate it here: When you go to my link on myspace you can hear a band I'm in, if you live in Germany you can occasionally hear it on the radio. Go to itunes or our website, http://ton-3.de/ and click kaufen and you can buy it. Record it without buying it, you've stolen it, and I can't afford to make more.
Whatever you choose, I wish you Peace. ASG

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:35 am

ArnoldGottlieb wrote:I was well aware of this posters earlier request for free music

Well, I wasn't. All I read were his posts in this thread, all of which did not indicate that he wanted or was requesting illegal bootlegged music. His first post said that he wanted "freeware" which is by no means illegal (even though there is some debate as to what is and what is not considered freeware when it comes to musical recordings - regardless "freeware" is legal). Just because he may have requested something illegal in a previous thread does not necessarily mean that he is doing it here (since he specifically asked for something legal). Keep in mind his English is not very good...

His other post, in this thread, all he was saying that he would be mad if someone downloaded his CD, that he produced, for free. He then said that he would be willing to make a few tracks available for free as a promotion. There's no problem here.

ArnoldGottlieb wrote:Like many of you, I go to work 6 days a week. I'm incredibly lucky that those 6 days involve playing the bass or tuba or both. However it is still work, and one of the things I've done with my money is to invest in instruments, a hard disc recorder, and a lot of travel expenses in hopes of one day making it back. When people want to burn my CD I have to explain why that's not cool, and usually after a while they understand, but explaining it to other musicians just sucks. As artist's, we are unable to exist without support from the luxury budget of the general public. The public, being what they are, need us to educate them as to why they need to buy and not steal recordings, but when we ourselves are not paying, we are telling the public it's okay, and pretty much dooming anybody trying to make a recording in a niche market(exactly what tuba CD's are) .... I understand the concept of freeware, and for anybody interested in hearing my music I'll happily illustrate it here: When you go to my link on myspace you can hear a band I'm in, if you live in Germany you can occasionally hear it on the radio. Go to itunes or our website, http://ton-3.de/ and click kaufen and you can buy it. Record it without buying it, you've stolen it, and I can't afford to make more.

I have by no means, anywhere in this thread or on this forum, suggested that it is an acceptable practice to burn, record without permission or download bootlegged copies of music. ALSO, In this thread, nobody has said that it is ok to do so or requested help in doing so. All that has been asked is to find a website with freeware - a place were one could go to access musical recordings legally. I don't see what the problem is!

ArnoldGottlieb wrote:The point about stealing bread is well taken, except that bread is needed for survival, and CD's are a luxury item. Stealing a millionaire's Caddy will get you the into the same jail as a musicians honda.

Same jail perhaps, but possibly different sentences, since sentences are subjective and are partially based on the context of the crime and the manner in which the crime affects the victim(s).

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:56 am

tubist wrote:I could not be happy when I spend my money for record my CD and other people will download for free this CD but I could give a few free tracks for example or some kind of promotion...I don't want whol CD....this isn't a crime

I don't see what's wrong with that post...

brianf wrote:Maybe he's getting a lesson on the "sharing" issue. In his first message (which I did remember), he wanted someone to send the record.

I think he has already learned his lesson, since he is asking for freeware, something that is legal!

brianf wrote:Then he wants some free cuts - not a crime??? Then there are the samples - something totally different, not shareware but copyrighted material where there is maybe a minute or so samples of a CD cut - I have a ton of them on my site. Permission was granted to put a sample out but the copyright is maintained - it is NOT freeware but a commercial sample.

He didn't want free cuts, he was asking for something that he referred to as freeware - something that is legal, at least that's what his intentions were. I think you may be splitting hairs here. He mentioned that the artist's website is the kind of thing that he was looking for. I believe that what you refer to as "commercial samples" is what the original poster intended to request when he asked for freeware.

brianf wrote:The other side are professionals who have CDs and some (like Oystein) are under contract to a recording company. Looking for a recording of them is only asking for one thing - a free copyrighted copy.

"Looking for a recording" does not imply that a person is looking for an illegal copy of something. All it may mean is that they are looking for a (CD) recording or a "commercial sampling" or whatever. Asking someone to email you the file, posting it without the artist's permission or burning it is illegal. Simply "looking for a recording" is not illegal...

brianf wrote:There is a difference between freeware, commercial samples and copyrighted material.

My argument is that the original poster did not request something illegal. What he requested was "freeware" which I think he refers to as the "commercial samples."

What he wanted was to listen to some free and legal music. Nothing more, nothing less. I still don't see where the PROBLEM is. Please enlighten me!

ArnoldGottlieb · Post by **ArnoldGottlieb** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:26 am

I never said it was ok to steal a rap product! I never even said that I think it's a lesser evil, although I do! I think that it is a lesser evil to steal a loaf of break from a millionare - compared to stealing the last loaf of break from a family in poverty - which would be a greater evil.

I have by no means, anywhere in this thread or on this forum, suggested that it is an acceptable practice to burn, record without permission or download bootlegged copies of music. ALSO, In this thread, nobody has said that it is ok to do so or requested help in doing so. All that has been asked is to find a website with freeware - a place were one could go to access musical recordings legally. I don't see what the problem is!

Have you suggested that it's a lesser evil (as you think it is), or have you suggested it's an unacceptable practice? Do you think there's a difference?
Peace. ASG
(wish I could use those quote buttons)

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:21 am

ArnoldGottlieb wrote: Have you suggested that it's a lesser evil (as you think it is), or have you suggested it's an unacceptable practice? Do you think there's a difference?
Peace. ASG
(wish I could use those quote buttons)

I have suggested that it is a lesser evil to steal music from an artist that is already filthy rich... compared to a struggling artist in a struggling industy (ie instrumental/classical music).

Just because I think stealing from an artist that is filthy rich is a lesser evil, does not mean that I think that it is an acceptable practice to steal music (from that filthy rich artist). I do not support people who steal music, even if it is from someone who is filthy rich. There is a difference!

I don't understand your difficulty in understanding the concept that action A can be worse than action B, with both actions still being bad.

Killing: Do you find killing an old person, who is dying and in a lot of pain, to be a lesser evil than killing a healthy newborn child??? Both are bad!!! But one is worse than the other! I don't kill (or support the killing of) old people!

I feel like I am just saying my same thing over and over and over again. I'm not saying anything NEW in the post, just saying the same things in different ways. I don't know if I can explain my stance any more than I already have!

ArnoldGottlieb · Post by **ArnoldGottlieb** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:38 am

I don't understand your difficulty in understanding the concept that action A can be worse than action B, with both actions still being bad.

I have no problem understanding the concept, I don't think it applies here, and you've done nothing to convince me that it does.

I feel like I am just saying my same thing over and over and over again. I'm not saying anything NEW in the post, just saying the same things in different ways. I don't know if I can explain my stance any more than I already have!

So we disagree! Let's be happy we are allowed to have disagreements and leave it at that.
Peace. ASG

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:09 am

Always consider the possibility that when someone is communicating in a second language, they may not phrase their request in the same way that a native English speaker would. Depending on their choice of words and phrases and grammar, etc., something may be able to be inferred that is not implied.

Consider "looking for a record", "can someone send me a record", etc. How do you know he wasn't trying to request to purchase something in a legal manner?

How would YOU make this request to him, in POLISH? Would you trust babelfish? I know **I** wouldn't!

I have found that (even with other native English speakers) we all make assumptions when we communicate. Frequently these are the biggest problem with our communication. Don't assume -- ask. Don't presume the worst, presume the best. Until you have asked, and have received a clear reply indicating that there really is a problem.

"a word to the wise ...."

Vielen Dank fuer Ihren Zeit,

ArnoldGottlieb · Post by **ArnoldGottlieb** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:36 am

Steve,
You are right. If you read Brian F's posts you'll notice that this was the second request for free music, and that's what really got to me, and then of course we sidetracked the thread into the usual stuff. Of course my own first experience in German was going to the fruit stand, telling them I have a half pound church and wondering where my cherries were.
Peace. ASG