Not done yet.... New 5th valve

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:17 pm

Well, after some thought and deliberation I decided my Conn/York could still use a 5th valve, only problem was the original valve that comes on the 5XJ's is quite inadiquate. So, why not slap on a LARGER valve - Well , I did. Here are some pictures.... This valve is a .810 or so ( I am not too good with calipers yet) which is significantly larger than the stock .730 valve it comes with. Result: a thunderous bottom register that is now aided not impeded by the 5th valve. And the rest of the horn plays just as open and clear as it did when i had the 5th valve removed.

Thoughts?

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windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:07 pm

JayW wrote:Thoughts?

I'm surprised that you didn't want to at least try a bigger-bore 5th to start with!

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:14 pm

Hi Jay, Do you still have the origianl valve? and what kind of valve did you put on your horn?

I am looking at adding a 4th valve to a 3 valve King BBb, but using a thumb valve rather than the usual pinky valve.

Also what did you use for the linkage and where did you get it?

ken k

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:03 am

Good jorb on the finger buttons!

I might try some fun stuff when I replace mine.

Matt Walters · Post by **Matt Walters** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:32 pm

I'll share my thoughts about the 5th valve on the Conn 5xJ tubas. Holly cow what an improvement the bigger and better built valve made!!

TubaTodd · Post by **TubaTodd** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:43 pm

hmmm....how do I say this...umm

I WANT ONE NOW!

I love my 56J, but I wondered if it would be possible to make it a wee bit LESS stuffy. Did you use a Rudy Meinl rotar, Meinl Weston, unnamed valve from the depths of Dillon Music, etc? Were you able to use the slide tubing from the original valve? Say my wife wanted to give me a great gift for my birthday of a bigger rotar, how much would this Matt-a-fication (or Jay-a-fication) of my 56J cost?

Bill Troiano · Post by **Bill Troiano** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:47 pm

Jay!!! So, what was the thought process that finally made you decide that you did need a 5th valve afterall? I'm just waiting to find out about my son's college destination and whether his teacher will want him to have a CC. Then, I might give him my 52J and go shopping again. If I do hold on to my 52J for myself, then I'm really inclined to try the 5th valve removal. I know I can get by without it. And, if it plays better and is a little lighter, I'd like the horn even more! And, with the fancy valve buttons...

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:40 pm

Well, the valve I used was actually an old Cerveny valve we had sitting around ....I made new ferrules , but other than that I was able to modift the rest of the tubing to accept the larger valve. I do plan on however maing a whole new wrap for it now that I see i am on the right path. As for the cost... I did all my own work, so I am not positive. but I believe going rate for a new valve and the rest of the work is around 1G. You'd have to call Matt for more details, I work sales

To answer Bill's question - as much as i do love the way the horn plays without the 5th valve, I felt like for Low register stuff (especially my lesson/practice material) called for more options in terms of response/intonation/etc.. The new BIG valve allows the horn to play just as open, but gives me the option of the 5th.

I am thrilled everyone, including Matt seems to like it so far.... I am almost there... ha ha ha

TubaTodd · Post by **TubaTodd** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:26 pm

1G eh....a little too rich for my blood....at the moment. With that being said I am a believer in what I have heard many a fine craftsman say "You can't discount quality craftsmanship." I wouldn't expect anyone to do that.

With that being said....valve buttons. Any word on how much they will be? I sent you a PM and other folks have discussed it in the forum. I was just curious.

Lime green baby....

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:53 pm

What part of the horn is the "York" part -- the bell? Whatever part is York and "non-Conn" -- what is the difference or advantage of the "Yorkification"?

TIA,

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:05 am

bloke wrote:
Steve Inman wrote:What part of the horn is the "York" part -- the bell? Whatever part is York and "non-Conn" -- what is the difference or advantage of the "Yorkification"?

TIA,
Steve,

Those York 19+" bells always sound amazing (nearly unequaled in a 4/4 category). The problem with any of those instruments ...Eb, BBb, (rare CC) has always been intonation.

A friend of mine has a York 4/4 bell AND bugle fitted to a 52/54/56J valve section (ending up in CC). It sounds so much richer than the King/Conn bugle/bell, and/but the intonation starts to get a tiny bit quirkier. Fortunately (in the case of his instrument) not very much quirkier at all.

Well Steve, Here goes my attempt to answer your questions

Conn Parts: Valve Section (1-4) and all brandches/bows/etc.
York: Just the bell
Other: 5th valve, receiver, thumbring, fingerbuttons

Advantage thus far: Intonation has been MUCH Improved. Notes that were quirky and almost annoying before have now come to where I do not even notice them with a tuner in front of me (i.e. E on the staff, which was bad is now quite manageable)
I as well as others have thought os the horn playing: More in tune with a much more controlled feel. The sound is rich, dark, centered and just plain Great.

My only project left: Re-design the 4th valve wrap (not for playability as much as just simple geometry) yet keep the valve section removeable.

UDELBR · Post by **UDELBR** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:44 am

JayW wrote: My only project left: Re-design the 4th valve wrap (not for playability as much as just simple geometry) yet keep the valve section removeable.

I always felt that 4th loop was an accident waiting to happen.

TubeNet

Not done yet.... New 5th valve

Not done yet.... New 5th valve

Re: Not done yet.... New 5th valve