Buffet bought Besson

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:14 pm

www.besson.com

back in business

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:18 pm

prototypedenNIS wrote:www.besson.com

back in business

Hmmm, could put a new twist on the "French Besson"...

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:40 pm

... gives new meaning to "in-flight Buffeting may have shifted compartment contents...

jameseuph642 · Post by **jameseuph642** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:33 pm

Excellent! I just bought a besson 967 and was worried about getting parts, but now that shouldn't be a problem.

Randy Beschorner · Post by **Randy Beschorner** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:01 am

It appears that Buffet Crampon has aquired Courtois as well. See the press release dated January 4th at the link below.

http://www.argos-soditic.com/fichiers/c ... arisEN.pdf

Alex F · Post by **Alex F** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:33 am

That makes sense given that the press release covering B-C's purchase of Courtois made a big point of maintaining a manufacturing relationship with JA Musik, which is, course, MW,VMI and Sternberg (Hungary). Lots of capacity there.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:21 pm

Don't get overjoyed yet--the Besson website says something about "8 months" of reorganization. Lot can happen in that time.

Give me a good German-built French English tuba....

JTJ · Post by **JTJ** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:30 pm

They wrote about an 8 month period before the new production would become available. It would be interesting to know how much old inventory they bought, or if it will take that long to start up production and get it through the distribution chain to retailers. We may see old production Besson brass sold at discount prices as they move to clear inventory for the new production.

John

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:58 pm

at least they didn't get bought out by Amati Denak

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:40 pm

mongrol2 wrote:
Mike Johnson wrote:Word is that they will be assembled by Melton (Meinl-Weston to those of you west of the pond)...
I didn't know that Wenzl-Meinl had the capacity to output so many horns...their factory isn't as large (or as modern) compared to those of mirafone/miraphone, etc.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see...interesting news though!

Actually, Meinl has been buying up several other companies themselves in the past few years, including B&S (formerly VMI when still "East German"); they have an enlarged manufacturing capacity now approaching that of Yamaha.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:17 pm

Jonathantuba wrote:As Courtois and Besson are now in the same group, I cannot help wondering if they will want to produce two competing ranges for the same market - surely not ecconomical? If not, which range will win?

I suppose we will have to wait and see.

Aren't the Courtois Eb and BBb basses made by Meinl/JA Musik now? It would seem that, at least in the case of compensating instruments, the logical thing would be to rebrand them as Besson. As for the CC bass, the tooling for those is already done iunder the Besson marque and it would probably be best to keep it that way, as low brass Courtois is almost unknown in the USA, where CCs are the most popular.

At least that's what seems logical...

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:29 pm

Ever since King bought Benge, before King itself was sucked into the ever expanding cyborg, I have never seen anything that remotely resembles logic, let alone an actual plan that considered the artistic aspects of instruments being at least as important as cash flow, in the structuring of the marketing of musical instruments. The closest it gets is the Fender custom shop.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:39 pm

Jonathantuba wrote:Incidentally the Courtois 181 EEb, seems to already be sold branded as a B&S 3181 - could it next be a Besson 9181???

Doesn't Fodens use Courtois exclusively? I've heard that the 181 is a very nice horn, but I don't know a thing about the 182 BBb.

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:15 am

Chuck(G) wrote: Doesn't Fodens use Courtois exclusively? I've heard that the 181 is a very nice horn, but I don't know a thing about the 182 BBb.

Er, EEb's yes, BBb's no. For very good reason.

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:19 am

Jonathantuba wrote:
AndyCat wrote: Er, EEb's yes, BBb's no. For very good reason.
Andy,
I know the Courtois BBb are a smaller wrap than the Besson which I guess might make them more stuffy - is that the "good reason"?

Just not very nice to play IMHO. Tuning issues, and nowhere near the sound of other comparable instruments. I'm pretty sure they never really used the BBb's, even when sponsored by Courtois. I certainly never played one there at that time, and the BBb's they have had a while are definitely not Courtois . But the EEb players liked the Courtois and I think they still use them, or Phil and Toby did til last year. Don't know about the current incumbents

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:32 am

What I have heard from the Courtois Eb 3+1 comper was dry and even smaller in sound than the Besson 982.

Probably not so bad for brass band, when the Eb and BBb basses play in octaves.

My preference for the Besson 981 has been kept no secret, but even if I have played the 981 in brass band, I am not entirely convinced, that it is an ideal brass band tuba.

It sound is too big and orchestral and out-powers most compensating BBbâ€™s and euphoniums for that matter. It even forces the bass trombone to play more aggressively than desirable.

The 981 easily fills the role of a 4/4 CC tuba, even if the range right above the pedal takes some hard work to control perfectly in matters of louder dynamics.

My personal 981 will last my time out. Yet I would be sad, if the 981 as a very well conceived model fell victim to the business manoeuvres going on.

When Meinl-Weston took over B&S, they simplified some designs to save money. I am not entirely convinced, that Joe S has forgiven them tinkering with the conical progression through the valve block of the 4+2RV F Symphonie model. But then he has one of the old ones, and if anybody would be able to maintain that instrument then Joe. No tinkering, village or urban.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:32 am

AndyCat wrote:
Just not very nice to play IMHO. Tuning issues, and nowhere near the sound of other comparable instruments. I'm pretty sure they never really used the BBb's, even when sponsored by Courtois. I certainly never played one there at that time, and the BBb's they have had a while are definitely not Courtois . But the EEb players liked the Courtois and I think they still use them, or Phil and Toby did til last year. Don't know about the current incumbents

Soon see if I'm right, doing this Saturday night with them at the RNCM festival of brass with Ian Bousfield. I'll defo be playing my trusty 992 tho!

NickJones · Post by **NickJones** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:04 am

At Beaumaris we play on 994 Bb's quite old but a quality instrument , great sounding ( used to play on a 992 at Point of Ayr) , the Eb's we use a 981 and 982 ( concert model - 981 mouthpipe but with Marching rings - made on request from Besson in 2001) , balance is always good..good foundation to the band

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:25 pm

Jonathantuba wrote:As Courtois and Besson are now in the same group, .......

Steinway bought United Musical Instruments, Selmer, and G. Leblanc. Consenquently, tubas under the following brand names are no longer competitors:

King
Conn
Vincent Bach
Holton

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:40 pm

And as I posted in another thread, Bach piston low brass are probably subcontracted to Yamaha, (Hmm, I wonder if Holton is as well?) and the whole thing has become a cyborg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Also gone from the panoply, assimilated by the cyborg: Buescher, Martin, Bundy, Cleveland by way of King, Benge barely holding on, as the cyborg redirected King's efforts at keeping the brand separate.

The real Olds and Reynolds have gone. York really never made it out of the depression.

TubeNet

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