"Kaiser?"

[imperialbari]

Böhm & Fuchs would be new to me. Bohland & Fuchs was a renowned pre-WWII maker. Now it is a stencil brand made by Amati/Cerveny.

Not even visiting one of the makers will necessarily give access to test playing any given model. Very few, if any, makers build tubas for storage.

Klaus

[bort]

Maybe ask David Fedderly about the MW 197? He carries the full line, so he'd probably know the long and short of it. I would guess though that any 6/4 Kaiser BBb is in short supply here in the US based on the very low demand and the very high cost.

I hadn't heard/noticed that Nirschl is no longer stocked by Dillon's, and that's a shame.

That said, to me at least, there are many, many things worse in life than taking a trip to Germany to visit tuba factories. It's not cheap, but I'm sure it would be unforgettable.

[Kevin Hendrick]

... does anyone in the States stock the Cerveny 601, 701, or 696?

Dillon and WWBW both list the 601s (BBb and CC), but not the other two. WWBW shows both 601s in stock, Dillon's web site doesn't indicate what their "stock status" is.

[Wyvern]

Does one have to travel to Germany to visit the factories and/or retailers to try the M-W 197

I don't think you would have much luck in finding 197 at the factory, or shops in Germany to try. I believe it is only made to special order. It is a model that sounds terrific played well, but I understand has very 'difficult' intonation.

If I was looking for Kaiser BBb, then the Nirschl would be top of my list to try. The price at Robert Tucci shop sounds very reasonable for handmade Kaiser. A MW 197 would no doubt cost a lot more.
http://www.hornboerse.de/lshop,showdeta ... -bf,,,.htm

[rodgeman]

Isn't the Miraphone Siegfried prototype going to be this size?

Has anyone heard if it is going to hit production soon? I checked a couple of months ago with Miraphone and they did not have a timeline.

[bort]

It is a model that sounds terrific played well...

I went to a Berlin Philharmonic concert back in December, and Alexander von Puttkamer sounded absolutely amazing on his 197!

[Bob Kolada]

The big Miraphone Bb is massive; it's like a 191 and a half*. The Fafner is super tall but not as big in the tubing as the Miraphone. I remember sitting down to play it at Midwest. I offered an exclamation of dubious language at the size of it; Steve Ferguson and Markus Theinart laughed and said it looked like a regular tuba on me.

However, while it looks like the 191 from hell it is a bit more "distant" and not quite as charming to play as the 191. Still a nice horn. I don't particularly like the Fafner or the piston Fafner. Though smaller the 1291 and 191 are my favorite big Bb tubas (indeed, my favorite contrabass tubas ever).

*I'd -love- to see a picture of it next to the big rotary Willson Bb next to a 191.

[Steve Marcus]

Isn't the Miraphone Siegfried prototype going to be this size?

Here are the specifications that are purportedly provided by the manufacturers on their largest BBb tubas:

--------SIEGFRIED----M-W 197/198-----CERVENY 601/701/696-----HIRSBRUNNER HBS 193
Height -----100 cm/39.4"-----114 cm/44.9"-----112 cm/44.09"-------------112 cm/44.09"
Bell diameter-----50 cm/19.7"-----46 cm/18.1"-----50 cm/19.7" ------------- 48 cm/18.9"
Bore---------------21-24mm---------21.5 mm/.846"------21.2mm/.827" -----------20.5mm/.807"
-----------------------.827"-.945"

The only specification shown on the Rudolf Meinl website for the "6/4" BBb tuba is the bell diameter: 56 cm/22".
I would imagine that Herr Meinl would supply the other specifications if an inquiry were addressed to him directly. Also, there are at least two 6/4 Rudy Meinl BBb tuba owners who read TubeNet.

Unfortunately, there are no specifications shown on the 6/4 Meister Walter Nirschl BBb Kaiser tuba. The only spec provided for the Boehm & Meinl Model 555 6/4 BBb is the bell diameter: 48cm/18.9"

The information on the Hirsbrunner is listed for comparison only because that horn is probably no longer built.

Has anyone heard if it is going to hit production soon? I checked a couple of months ago with Miraphone and they did not have a timeline.

According to correspondence with one of the engineers assigned to the Siegfried project, the estimated release date is late autumn 2011.

FWIW, the Siegfried is the only tuba listed above that I have played for more than 10 minutes (I played a 6/4 Rudi for that amount of time--much more time would be needed to get comfortable with its demand for slow, thick air). The Siegfried was very easy to play. I'd certainly like the opportunity to play the other models before I would buy one of these 6/4 BBb tubas.

The differences between the Cerveny 601, 701, and 696 are not clear, except that the 601 and 701 are heavier than the 696. Perhaps the diameter of the throats differ, but that is not stated in any manufacturer's specs (where on the throat would one measure for uniformity--just before the bell flare?).

[rodgeman]

Steve Marcus - Thanks for the update.

[Ulli]

The differences between the Cerveny 601, 701, and 696 are not clear, except that the 601 and 701 are heavier than the 696.

All 7xx Cervenys are complete gold brass.

[Wyvern]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

[Rev Rob]

I am glad Chris purchased this tuba. I was bidding on it as well. But looking at the size of this tuba, I would be hard pressed to send enough air through it. This is a young man's tuba.

[sloan]

The Kaiser term for a big tuba may be seen in the light of tuba history still being young, when when Germany became a unified Kaiserreich in 1871.

Whereas there were tubas this large being produced far, far earlier than 1871.

What were they called then, Klaus?

[Ulli]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

Sorry, my translation mistake:

For the Cerveny 7xx, the German word is Goldmessing, so I translated gold brass.

[Wyvern]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

Sorry, my translation mistake:

For the Cerveny 7xx, the German word is Goldmessing, so I translated gold brass.

No reason to apologise! Maybe in German the Cerveny is called gold brass, but is more usually called red brass in English due to the more red color with higher copper content.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Having seen this older thread, and with recent interest in large rotary tubas again , I am just wondering what is your favorite:
1). BBb and, 2). CC 'Kaiser' tuba(s) that YOU HAVE PLAYED (whether you own it or not, and whether it is a new model or older horn) these days?

Thanks-

Mark

[bisontuba]

' still for sale?

I just love asking a question, and having a sarcastic response.....
Mark

[Lars Trawen]

When asked what make and model this tuba is, Chris Schmidt, its lucky owner, answered, "It's a Kaiser BBb, purchased from eBay."

These questions certainly are not meant to embarrass Chris (besides, I'd like to try the horn someday!), but I'm curious:

Is "Kaiser" the name of a company, builder, or brand? I thought the term simply referred to a style or size of horn.

Who is the manufacturer of this tuba, and is there an actual model designation? Has anyone besides Chris seen or does anyone else own a tuba exactly like this one?

When working in Holland about 20 years ago, I came across a Dutch manufacturer of tubas, located in Enschede.
The company was named Van Weersel and the tubas were called J.F. Kayser.
I don't know if the company still exists.
One of the models I testplayed was very similar to Chris' Kaiser seen on his picture.
For you to compare, I attach a picture, taken at that occasion.
I was told it was a Miraphone copy. It certainly looks like one.

[PhilGreen]

In 1987 the band I played in bought 2 Kaiser tubas from Phil Parker in London. They were in BBb, had 5 rotary valves and the 5th stepped the tuning down a minor 3rd.
Could anyone identify from this rather old photo? My friend still has this one in his loft, unplayed and unloved, although I see him seldom now to encourage him to play and check out the model myself.

Thanks in advance......

[imperialbari]

190-5U