the schiller American Heritage 6 Valve Rotary F Tuba

[Lingon]

... If someone has solved the intonation problems of that F, then congratulations to them!...

Jonathan, have you discussed with the factory about the intonation problem? I remember in some earlier thread that you mentioned playing a couple of those instruments both bad and good ones, in China.
And the 'upgraded' one is also mentioned here and there. So if it is just to change the lead pipe for the intonation to be better, then maybe the modification could be available as a spare part for the older horns and standard or at least as an option for the newer ones as the instruments seems to be OK in all other aspects? Other brands may improve over time and I suppose JB are interested in that too?! It would be nice to have a full grown good working F rather than just the Bubbie to choose from...

A little off topic I can assure you that my old JB alto trombone and the CB trbn, that both played fine right out of the box, are also improved by putting in other lead pipes.

Anyone here that have compared the 'upgraded' F with the unmodified thoroughly and would be willing to share the experiences with TN?

[Dan Schultz]

Didn't someone intimate that these instruments have a connection to Germany?

Perhaps the "German engineers" went back over these instruments and redesigned them...

Any connection to Germany by any music instrument is rapidly fading. The Germany government only requires that 40% of the FINAL ASSEMBLY has to take place in Germany in order to qualify as a German product.

Aside from that... is there such a thing as an in-tune F tuba? Can't blame the Chinese for that. All they've done is copy stuff that didn't work so well in the first place. Lessee... would I rather pay $2,000 or $15,000 for a tuba that isn't in-tune?

[bort]

Hey Dan,

On that... do you think (or know) that it's some manufacturers more than others? If I'm remembering correctly, in "Tuba" Joe Exley's blog about his visit to the Miraphone factory, he mentioned something about talking to them about manufacturing, and they said that everything is always made right there in Germany. I would also expect that from the boutique manufacturers like Alexander, Rudy Meinl, Thein, etc.

Then again, German companies make many instruments other than just tubas, and much more than just high-end ones as well.

[Diegoo]

Why unreasonable Mr? I did myself a question. Greetings

Open F was just awful. Im the kind of guy that doesn't like to use alternate fingerings for what should be the tuning note of a horn.

You're just being unreasonable. It looks like an F tuba. Isn't that enough for you?

[Lingon]

...is there such a thing as an in-tune F tuba?...
... would I rather pay $2,000 or $15,000 for a tuba that isn't in-tune?...

Thein?

[Diegoo]

You're right, thanks a lot Mr, I'll think about it,
I play BBb Tuba a long time but now I need a F Tuba And That Schiller not think it is bad to start and be my first F tuba

Diegoo,

Some love them, some hate them. I have no opinion, but if you search "Jinbao F" you'll come up with several long threads discussing them.

Reading through those will give you a sense of their strengths (yes, some people do think they are worthwhile) as well as their weaknesses. (And it will also be a good primer in the skill of reading TubeNet. The learning curve is a vertical wall.)

[Diegoo]

Right Mr Marty Thanks
I'll talk to the person who will sell me the tuba: http://www.schillerinstruments.com/tuba ... kel-silver" target="_blank" target="_blank
and I will ask how much it costs to fix the main problem to open the F, What do you think about this?

I have talked to most of the importers of these horns over the last year, and have found out a few interesting things:
The "original" version that is still for sale (and even listed as an "upgraded" model due to a different leadpipe) has a great low register, overall good sound and response, but a few intonation issues that can either be fixed by lipping, alternate fingerings, or a trigger. People either love or hate these horns, but with a little work they are very playable.
The true "upgraded" version costs somewhat more and does not share these intonation issues. There have been a few people able to play both side by side, and they have immediately noticed the difference.

If I was to buy one of these horns, I would talk to the importers directly and spend the extra bucks on the one with the good open F.

Here is a very good and honest thread about the original version of these horns:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44720

Marty "not schilling for anyone."

[Wyvern]

Not on topic per se, but to the flow of the thread -- Jonathan, you mention the Alex-style BBb in your response. My question is - does it SOUND like the Alex? The look is there, I agree, but is the resonance and heft present? I'm genuinely eager to hear your assessment.

Having only once tried an original Alex and that a few years ago it is difficult for me to compare playing and tone wise, but the JBBB-200 is an amazing rotary BBb with real resonance to its sound, solid intonation and incredible low register - and rotary valves (on the four I've had) are as fast, quiet and smooth as a German made tuba. Players that try on Wessex trade stand (including those from the top Championship bands) are amazed by how well it plays - I had two wanting to buy when I recently exhibited at the Royal Northern College of Music - in fact one did take away.

The next time I am playing Shostakovich, or Prokofiev I want to try on this tuba.

[Wyvern]

... If someone has solved the intonation problems of that F, then congratulations to them!...

Jonathan, have you discussed with the factory about the intonation problem? I remember in some earlier thread that you mentioned playing a couple of those instruments both bad and good ones, in China.
And the 'upgraded' one is also mentioned here and there. So if it is just to change the lead pipe for the intonation to be better, then maybe the modification could be available as a spare part for the older horns and standard or at least as an option for the newer ones as the instruments seems to be OK in all other aspects? Other brands may improve over time and I suppose JB are interested in that too?! It would be nice to have a full grown good working F rather than just the Bubbie to choose from...

A little off topic I can assure you that my old JB alto trombone and the CB trbn, that both played fine right out of the box, are also improved by putting in other lead pipes.

Anyone here that have compared the 'upgraded' F with the unmodified thoroughly and would be willing to share the experiences with TN?

I doubt if JinBao would share the individual modifications of another dealer, but may ask. My focus is however more on developing a new 'better' F tuba, amongst other models...

Jonathan "who has just been successfully visiting the Chinese factories this last week"

[MikeMason]

If the mythical "lead pipe fix" exists,I'll take one...

[ghmerrill]

My focus is however more on developing a new 'better' F tuba, amongst other models...

Jonathan "who has just been successfully visiting the Chinese factories this last week"

Something along the lines of the Cerveny Arion baby would be really nice -- at least from my perspective.

[Dan Schultz]

Hey Dan,

On that... do you think (or know) that it's some manufacturers more than others? If I'm remembering correctly, in "Tuba" Joe Exley's blog about his visit to the Miraphone factory, he mentioned something about talking to them about manufacturing, and they said that everything is always made right there in Germany. I would also expect that from the boutique manufacturers like Alexander, Rudy Meinl, Thein, etc.

Then again, German companies make many instruments other than just tubas, and much more than just high-end ones as well.

Actually... I don't care where parts, sub-assemblies, or finished products come from as long as the name on the item takes responsibility for the quality within.

[Bob Kolada]

Funny how fans of such would attack honest appraisals of this instrument earlier, and then later attack it in force....
Correction, it's actually quite annoying.

[Lingon]

...

... If someone has solved the intonation problems of that F, then congratulations to them!...

...Jonathan, have you discussed with the factory about the intonation problem? I remember in some earlier thread that you mentioned playing a couple of those instruments both bad and good ones, in China...

I doubt if JinBao would share the individual modifications of another dealer, but may ask. My focus is however more on developing a new 'better' F tuba, amongst other models...

Well, that's fair and of course if MM have worked out something then other could try to do the same or try to license the thing, for that matter, if it is solves the problems? That is maybe about communication? MM that has told us he is a parts supplier for the JB instruments would maybe sell the modded pipe as an accessory to those interested and thus solve the bad reputation of the JB F's intonation? I remember the lyric talk about this instrument when it struck the market...

So, if the problems could be solved with a leadpipe switch then it would be interesting for you and your colleagues to work together to develop such a thing? Or have some independent party work on it? I do not know how these things work in the tuba world but for trombones there are many alternatives to get from more than one source. For example Kanstul makes, amongst other things, a lot of trombone lead pipes. I have an English Mick Rath pipe in my Bach 42 that works very fine. So if there is interest in having the JB600 working why not try to develop a pipe that works, if it is only about the leadpipe? That could also be sold as an option with or without the instrument and thus the already in use JB600s could be bettered and with the perspective of your intentions to get a new model born then also give even more alternatives for the potential buyer. As far as I understand there are good things about the 600 but not good intonation. Fix the intonation and it would be a good instrument? Or just scrap the model?

Jonathan, do not misinterpret my ramblings, It would surely be interesting to get news about a newly developed F-tuba too. Too many tubas are not enough as we all know. But, if the JB would improve on their exisisting models, giving the current users options then they may eventually be seen in another light, and not the usual just make quick money perspective?

Did you have a pleasant trip to China?

Anyone here that have compared MMs 'upgraded' F with the unmodified thoroughly and would be willing to share the experiences with TN? Or can tell us something about the not so cheap Thein F tuba and intonation?

[Wyvern]

John, Having heard in this thread (and by PM) that an JBFB-600 with improved intonation is real, I have already taken moves to find out if it is available to sell this side of the pond. Will see what response I get.

If I manage to secure some, I will announce

[MikeMason]

i've used mine on corsair twice.the final product was just fine.it did take some extra time figuring out fingerings and writing up and down arrows in the part.I'd pay a nice chunk for a magic leadpipe.still believe the horn to be well worth what i paid.I won't keep it forever as is...

[MikeMason]

It's still a useable f tuba for tiny money,if ur willing to do the work.yes,the honeymoon is over and she ain't quite as cute

[Wyvern]

I am informed by JInBao that they only manufacture one model of the JBFB-600, so if there is an improved version, those improvements must be made post production.

Mike, maybe worth you contacting M&M and see if you can buy the improvement kit to upgrade your existing tuba!

[modelerdc]

Is it possible that any improvements have been made to this model, and have been added by the factory to ongoing production? Does anyone know if M&M adds any imporvments themselves, and if so what does this consist of? Any actual hardward changes, such as different leadpipe and such, or perhaps just a few tweaks like vavle alignent, gap adjustment or what?

[tubahero300]

i have heard that one thing that they add is a gold brass lead pipe, that is one thing that i know