Better Tubas

[Donn]

They want an F tuba to be an F tuba, and they have a very refined notion of what that is. We want an F to be like a small C with an easy upper register.

How about, we want an F to be an Eb?

My Yamaha 621 has excellent intonation and a low C that feels like a contrabass. I don't have to manipulate slides to play that instrument, and neither do I have to lip notes around or even pay that much attention to intonation. But that instrument lacks the projection and propagation of a bigger F tuba.

I was hoping someone would bring up the 822. Watch people talk about that model in this Tubenet thread from October, and decide for yourself how the market looks for a perfect tuba. (Not that I'm saying it's perfect - they're saying it's perfect. `darned nice horn overall, despite the extremely consistent sound', for example.)

[Rick Denney]

I was hoping someone would bring up the 822. Watch people talk about that model in this Tubenet thread from October, and decide for yourself how the market looks for a perfect tuba. (Not that I'm saying it's perfect - they're saying it's perfect. `darned nice horn overall, despite the extremely consistent sound', for example.)

There was also "the Yamaha is easier to play; the 45SLP is easier to listen to." And not everyone praised the 822's intonation in that thread.

I have this feeling that European F tuba players have a whole different perspective on playing an F tuba. For them, the low C probably feels right (because they know how to blow it) and it probably feels wierd on a contrabass.

The 822 (and the 621) are great F tubas for what they are, but the 621 has more application for me. It's a great chamber instrument. The 822 is biggish for that, with too much of a C-tuba sound. The B&S has an F-tuba sound that goes well with the small groups, but it also has the projection to stand up to a large ensemble. I'm glad I have both the 621 and the B&S--they complement each other.

As to Eb tubas, I've played several. The Willsons don't have the low fourth-valve problem of the F's, but that's true for both the Willson Eb and the F, and even the rotary F. But they are more like the 822 in terms of a broad, contrabass sound.

I think that, as with the body on which the 621 is based, Yamaha went to school on Besson. The Eb Sovereign doesn't seem to have the color of sound that I heard from top soloists on F tubas. But it does have the weight to support a big ensemble.

Again, those who wanted their F to be like a contrabass with an easy upper register, the 822 would do it for them. The Willson, and various Eb tubas, would do the same. That describes me in some circumstances--I'm making no complaint. But optimizing an alternate instrument for players who spend most of their time on contrabasses may de-optimize it for players who plan to spend nearly all their time on the F.

Once again, "perfect" is both undefinable and unattainable.

Rick "viva l'difference" Denney

[MartyNeilan]

Their manufacturing skill is little better than Canon's (Canon lenses can be beautifully made when they want them to be), but their line for rejection is much higher.

I currently live in the South, the land of "It'll-be-alright." I had a few temp jobs while in college and just recently one making auto parts on the graveyard shift. It doesn't matter how expensive the machines are or how well engineered the product is, if "anything goes" on the line. Most recently, at the auto parts plant (for a FOREIGN branded company!) we were making a certain drivetrain component that had to be within critical tolerences. Every 20th one was inspected with computerized measuring equipment, documented, and plotted on a graph so the production run can be analyzed.
Here is the kicker:
If that part was not within spec, we were told to measure the next few until we found one that was in spec, and use that number. If none of them were within spec, we were told to put it down as being within the highest range of acceptability. Whenever I would show something to a supervisor that looked wrong, the response would always be "It'll-be-alright."

I temped at a different plant 2 weeks one summer, that was covered with "quality" signs everywhere. The regular employees just scoffed at the notion of qualty and didn't give a darn about what left the gates, or even if the counts were correct. At least those particular parts were non-critical and wouldn't leave you stranded on the side of the road within 30,000 miles.

[Kevin Hendrick]

... It doesn't matter how expensive the machines are or how well engineered the product is, if "anything goes" on the line.

I temped at a different plant 2 weeks one summer, that was covered with "quality" signs everywhere. The regular employees just scoffed at the notion of qualty and didn't give a darn about what left the gates, or even if the counts were correct. At least those particular parts were non-critical and wouldn't leave you stranded on the side of the road within 30,000 miles.

Exactly right! QS-whatever certification doesn't mean JS if the employees are trying to dance past it and fake their way through it, instead of making an honest (do I expect too much?) effort to implement it ...

[iiipopes]

Ed Deming, the quality control expert for the ages, would roll over in his grave!

http://www.deming.org

[Kevin Hendrick]

Ed Deming, the quality control expert for the ages, would roll over in his grave!

http://www.deming.org

That's what I've been hearing! Sounds like a first-generation LearJet spooling up ...