Lexus verses Duesenberg

[tofu]

You know when you really think about it what the Duesenburg vs Lexus idea from the original poster really shows is that you can play an old tuba from the twenties in a modern orchestra and be every bit as good as somebody playing a brand new modern tuba of whatever make you think is the best. An example would be the CSO Yorks.

On the other hand no matter how great a race car chassis from the twenties was nobody including the very able Fred & Augie Duesenberg of yore or the great Harry Stutz of Indy fame or the fabulous McClaren in his prime in Formula One or even Carrol Shelby would have been able to make it competitive in racing today. Chassis and drivetrain design have evolved that much over the last 75 years.

I think it really demonstrates how very little tubas have improved over the last 75 + years. You would think we would have seen more evolution and innovation. Of course if everybody had to have a tuba like they seem to have to have a car there would be a whole lot more R&D dollars and companies willing to take design risks. What we need is to increase the number of tubas via a new political campaign of a chicken in every pot, two cars in the garage and a tuba in every house!

[Rick Denney]

Intonation, power and tone quality have all advanced considerably, so all I can say is those old Yorks, Holton's and Conns must have been way ahead of their time to stand comparison with modern tubas.

It's not so much that they were innovative. If you look at the Yorks and Conns of the 20's, they are not that different from the Yorks and Conns of the turn of the last century.

America's biggest contribution has been the amalgamation of Perinet valves to large rotary tubas. And that was probably a manufacturing convenience.

And the conductors of the time wanted a big sound, probably to compete with the popular wind bands, orchestral organs, and new recordings. It was Stokowski who demanded the construction of the CSO York.

The old Bessons and Booseys had reasonable intonation compared with American instruments of the day, based on the limited samples I have played. What they lacked was a powerful, big sound. But I think that was a difference in sound concept more than in technology. I have a good chunk of experience with a Besson Class A BBb tuba with three compensating enharmonic valves. Even after a valve job, the instrument had a thin, airy sound and required an approach different from what I put into it. I suspect the players of such instruments used smallish mouthpieces and had a sound more euphonium-like in their heads.

And German tuba players had a different objective, one of reinforcing the trombone section rather than providing a unique voice. The concept of the unique voice seems to have been American in origin, though I go back to Stokowski being the person who requested (of Donatelli) to have the York made.

I also see a band influence. Outdoor concert bands were in their heyday in the early 20th Century, with many towns having professional bands as a matter of course. That history is a little different from the brass-band heritage in Britain. It's not impossible that orchestras, seeing the commercial success of bands, were trying to create more of the sonority of the band without giving up their wider tonal palette. That's pure speculation, of course, but it's based on what might be a more American view of the value of commercial success.

Rick "thinking instruments accommodate sound concepts rather than creating them" Denney