Bell Front Tubas - Too Old Fashioned?!?

[windshieldbug]

As was mentioned earlier you can turn the bell so it is not facing directly at the conductor also

Now why anyone would want to do this is beyond me!

[The Big Ben]

This topic reminds me of the 1994 National Youth Band of Wales Course , directed by Prof Edward Gregson , Peter Denton had just sold a miraphone tuba and bought a 20 inch belled Conn 4v Bb Tuba , a real monster...so during the rehersal all 4 Bb players ( was a double band of 50 plus players) had a go at different points in the rehersal , what a mega instrument very direct , massive and not very comfortable to hold , but the clincher was seeing the shock in prof Gregson's face as Matt Routley ( tuba player with the Black Dyke Band) punched some notes in a March called Washington D.C. by Brian Kelly..shock is an understatement.

That's so funny! "Vulgar like an American" as my English granny would say.....

Jeff "Vulgarity can sometimes be a virtue" Benedict

[trseaman]

My only bell for many years was a front facing bell but I finally got an upright bell last year. For our indoor concert setting, I always hated not being able to sit my horn down, like the bell-up horns. You know balance the horn, change your music, take a drink of water and be careful not to fall off the back of the riser. Who says tuba players can't multi-task??? So I started using the upright for indoors and the front facing for outdoors. It only makes sense...

Tim

[Chuck(G)]

My only bell for many years was a front facing bell but I finally got an upright bell last year. For our indoor concert setting, I always hated not being able to sit my horn down, like the bell-up horns.

Around here, the middle school kids have a solution for that--just make the bottom bow nice and flat.

[Dan Schultz]

My only bell for many years was a front facing bell but I finally got an upright bell last year. For our indoor concert setting, I always hated not being able to sit my horn down, like the bell-up horns. You know balance the horn, change your music, take a drink of water and be careful not to fall off the back of the riser. Who says tuba players can't multi-task??? So I started using the upright for indoors and the front facing for outdoors. It only makes sense...

Tim

I resolve the 'holding' issue in two ways:

1) I often use a single strap to keep the horn from sliding off my lap. I like to use a stool that is about 30" tall for gigging. (go ahead Doc/Wade/etc... find a picture of a toilet to post!)
2) If I want to put the horn on the floor, I'll put a mouthpiece pouch over the mouthpiece and use the 'three-point' method... edge of bell, side of bottom bow, & mouthpiece to put the horn on.

Also... going waaaay back to the 'big band' era when stage bands used bell-front horns... they used play-stands... mostly because the tuba players also played sting bass and had to move back and forth between instruments. Those bell-front tubas were most always top-action horns so all the bass player had to do is move over to the side of the tuba and sit down.

[trseaman]

You know balance the horn, change your music, take a drink of water and be careful not to fall off the back of the riser. Who says tuba players can't multi-task???

I forgot to add the ole' King twirl to get all the fluid out!!! Either way, I'm happy to have both bells now!

Tim

[tubatooter1940]

As was mentioned earlier you can turn the bell so it is not facing directly at the conductor also

Now why anyone would want to do this is beyond me!

A very good blue grass band was playing the porch at Pirates Cove (har de dar). Their string bass player was no slouch. I was invited to play tuba along with the five of them and some other Pirates Covites. I was determined to lock in tight with their string bass man and not step on him. This made it necessary to see his hands so I could get rhythm from his right and chords from his left. My old King Eb bellfront was pointing at the bassist and not the audience. The guys in the band wanted to hear tuba solos on everything they did. Several listeners asked me to point the tuba at them so they could hear it so I loosened the three bell screws and turned the 24 inch bell about 100 degrees to port over my head. It sounded strange to me but I could still hear so I didn't care. I'm sure their bass player appreciated it too.

[Steve Inman]

I would be interested to hear the difference of bell-front tubas because I have never heard one in the UK. They seem to be a specific US idea - I wonder why?

Surely not ALL of these Besson/B&H BBb monstrosities (seen everywhere around here in the dungeons of old band halls) left England.

I'm assuming that you have adequate clearance to see the conductor under the edge of the bell rim .....

[LoyalTubist]

I bought an interesting collection of LPs (remember those, guys?) when I was stationed as a soldier in Berlin, Germany. It is of Otto Klemperer and the Berlin State Opera Orchestra performing all nine Beethoven symphonies. Wait, you say. Beethoven didn't write tuba parts for his symphonies. No, he didn't. But this collection was recorded between 1922 and 1924. That was back in the days of the box microphones that Chuck(G) showed earlier in this thread. The double bass parts on these symphonies was played by both the regular double bass section of the State Opera Orchesta as well as six tuba players playing recording basses. Since I don't have pictures, I can't tell you what they are. (It wouldn't surprise me if they played KINGS, CONNS, MARTINS, or BUESCHERS). If someone has a picture of a typical recording session of a symphony orchestra like this in the 1920s (or earlier, after 1907), I think we'd all like to see it!

[armytuba]

[tubatooter1940]

Last Saturday, from 6-9, I played a duo with John Reno on guitar/vocal at Cosmo's- a really nice restuarant/bar in Orange Beach, Alabama.
A storm front was approaching and we were playing outside on a wooden deck under a 10 by 10 tent with a pointed roof. We did not need to be loud for the waiting-for-a-table and sit-down-for-an-after-dinner-drink-crowd. To minimize equipment to drag inside when the rain comes, we settled on our small (300 watt) P.A. system turned low to match my unamplified tuba's volume. Everything worked out great. The rain went North of us. It wasn't very chilly. Some nice folks filled the tables before and many after dinner as well. They bought c.d.'s-asked for our cards, and said nice things about us to management.
My bell-front tuba projected out of the tent to the folks in front of us. A bell-up tuba would have had to be amplified-causing me to lug another self-powered E.O.N. with a 15 in it for the tuba. As it was, we got a nice, balanced sound at the volume we wanted.
Happy Creekers!

Dennis Gray
tubatooter1940
www.johnreno.com/

[iiipopes]

I just purchased an early 1970's Miraphone 186 with both its original detachable recording bell and a retrofitted upright bell. Obviously, the upright bell will be used most. But I'm really looking forward to outdoor gigs, like the county fair, Independance Day, parade floats, etc., for the forward bell.

Unfortunately, to retrofit the upright bell, the wiseacres at Tuba Exchange took the tenon off the recording bell instead of fitting a new one to preserve the recording bell. So I'll have to sort that out first before I can use it. But I did get a good deal on the tuba overall, also in spite of the fact that the upright bell is too short and I have to pull the tuning slide all the way, and they wouldn't help me figure out a longer one.

[windshieldbug]

But I did get a good deal on the tuba overall, also in spite of the fact that the upright bell is too short and I have to pull the tuning slide all the way, and they wouldn't help me figure out a longer one

That actually might be historically acurate. My 184 (built in 1974) was made to that same pitch with it's permanent bell up. In order to use it now, I'm almost all the way out, too. Good thing the intonation on these beasts is so darn good!

[iiipopes]

Follow up to my posts from 2007: some time ago I finally got a tenon from Dan Schultz and a second tuning slide so I can use both bells. The retrofit upright bell is a St Pete, not a Miraphone, probably salvaged off a horn that otherwise didn't make the trip well across the pond to get here. Vince paid to have the tuning slide extended to match the St Pete bell.

As far as I know, the bell front Bessons were made just for the USA market to compete with all of the other bell front tubas that were the norm at the time: Yorks, Conns, Kings, Martins, Bueschers, etc., so I'm not surprised that many UK tuba players have never played nor heard a bell front Besson. They also made a USA-styled bell front "baritone" in the Conn/King/Olds concert band style American baritone style also to compete, complete with a 3-valve front compensating block. I'll have to get one of those someday.

Finally, like Dan said above, in some settings were otherwise I'd have to be miked, the bell front works and balances much better. Next week I'll use it in the first parade setting instead of a souzy to see how it goes.

Someone else posted about not caring for the overly large bell. The bell on the Miraphone is a hair shy of 20 inches, not the 22, 24 or 26 that some can be. It does promote clarity, and is easier to see around, but still large enough that all the advantages of the bell front are had.

I do a Memorial day gig on a large outdoor stone & concrete gazebo built in "neoclassic" style. The first couple of years I did this I used a souzy, by habit outdoors. It sounded alright. Then I thought about the high plaster ceiling of the gazebo. The next year I took my 186 with the upright bell, and it sounded much better bouncing the sound off the ceiling and out.

And just so I am not "left out" of any nostalgia: the way the 3rd and 4th valve circuits are routed on the BBb version of a 186, occasionally I get to pull those slides and do my own version of the "King spin!"

Point of all this digression: as bloke initially posted, there is a time and place for each bell, so it is good to have both.

[Steve Marcus]

As far as I know, the bell front Bessons were made just for the USA market to compete with all of the other bell front tubas that were the norm at the time

When my HS band (suburb of Philadelphia) did an exchange concert with the concert band from the HS from Parsippany, NJ (many years ago), the latter brought two 4-valve bell-front Bessons. My HS only had horrible convertible 4-valve BBb horns of a brand that I have justifiably forgotten; they were a great disappointment. In comparison, the big Bessons were a dream to play! The low F resonated like no other tuba or sousaphone that I had played up to that time. I had a great time playing the Besson for the bass line on some jazz/pop charts that we read through for fun after the formal full band rehearsal.