Church Tubists

[rocksanddirt]

What an interesting observation, Dusty!

I'm not surprized that folks find the sound of an Eb easy to sing along with, I'd never have thought of using such a thing for the only accompaniment though.

I agree with Denny that for the application discussed, any of the midrange full size horns discussed would be more than adaquate and last the church for untold years.

[Rick Denney]

The Eb can be played by any treble cleff player, and you can play the melody line right out of the hymn books, with easy transpositions.

That is not a skill most hobbyist tuba players possess, except for the older ones who learned back when the Eb tuba was the "beginner" instrument.

The decision one might make for oneself for a particular situation will conform to a completely different set of requirements than the decision one might use for buying a tuba for use by anyone who might happen to play it. That distinction is important. In most church gigs, I'm in a small ensemble and usually bring an F tuba. But that's not what I would choose for any given church to buy. Any high-school-trained tuba player can manage a Bb tuba.

Of course, I'm thinking of the tuba being used to play the bass line out of a hymn book, or the tuba part of most church musicals. That is a different requirement than playing the melody line as the sole accompanist. I certainly enjoy the F tuba more for playing singable melodies.

By the way, I admire what you are doing, and I know from my own performances in retirement communities how important it is to the residents. It sounds like a wonderful ministry.

Rick "who has played in a wide range of church situations" Denney

[Rick Denney]

On a side note. This instrument and the orchestra in general is not used to "entertain congregants".

Hey, please don't take offense. You are talking to a believer who shares your motivations.

But I also have a lot of experience with church orchestras, and it is often hard to distinguish the real objectives of some of the musical extravaganzas in which I have participated. There have been times when it was quite apparent that the ego of the music minister was a principal motivator. And there have been other times when the church broadcasts their services on TV and want to put on a good show. In many cases, most of the musicians were hired not because of their affiliation with the church or their shared belief. How can they lead worship when they have no intention of being worshipful? In one case, the orchestra in which I played was hired just so that the choir could perform a work they wanted to perform for entirely musical reasons--the words were in a language the congregation didn't understand and there were no subtitles.

We are all sinners, and everything we do is thus tainted. Examining our motivations is a constant struggle, and challenging us to perform such examination is always appropriate. Hence, my statement. My intent was to suggest that buying a $10,000 tuba might not meet the requirements for leading worship any better than a $5000 tuba, but the $5000 difference might make a real difference in the mission work conducted by that church.

Rick "suggesting prayerful consideration of motives for others in similar circumstances" Denney

[SplatterTone]

Out of curiosity, I tried out my 3/4 Chinese No-name .709 bore horn instead of the 191. Nobody noticed the difference or cared. Not the other musicians, nobody. How disappointing. But then: I would not notice or care if the fiddle player had a million dollar something, or a $99 Palatino. Get used to it. To 99.9999 percent of the listeners, a tuba is a tuba is a tuba. Until it gets dents in it. Then it's a tuba with dents in it.

[iiipopes]

I agree. I support. I "wear the t-shirt." I've been involved with church music, both choral and instrumental, since I was a toddler stood up in front to sing "Jesus Loves Me" with the rest of the Sunday School class. I am ingrained with the mind set of helping to facilitate worship, as the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer preface states, "...so the congregation may be edified thereby..." as opposed to mere performance.

The whole aspect of figuring out which tuba to buy for a church is a matter of dealing with limitations: limitations of the person who will likely be playing it, not just now, but in the future, limitations on church budget, limitations on the repertoire due to the limitations of the rest of the vocalists and instrumentalists, the worship space, and even the congregation. And we haven't even approached the issues of long term maintenance.

The fact that the resident genius and myself have both recommended the same horns (I forgot to include the "basic" VMI/B&S rotary in that group) should be taken as both of us trying to take into account all the above, including careful consideration as to what will actually and reasonably facilitate worship, keeping in mind all these limitations, while providing possible means of expansion of worship expression as a means of edifying the congregation, so at the end of the service the congregation will, "Go forth...." If either of us have left out an instrument that may well serve the purpose, it only shows we are all limited, and probably just haven't had any playing experience with that particular instrument, so silence on a particular model should not be automatically discounted as disapproval. We can all only genuinely opine only from experience.

The PT-605 is a new enough model that a specimen has not made it into the backwoods here in southwest Missouri where I live. I have seen its description and read its reviews. It's known in Europe as the GR-51, and has a high reputation.

I wish I had the opportunity to play one. I even posted a thread when I was in the market for a tuba a couple of years ago for anybody to comment on it.

I'm sure the PT-605 will be a fine tuba for its application. Let us know how it turns out.

[tbn.al]

In many cases, most of the musicians were hired not because of their affiliation with the church or their shared belief. How can they lead worship when they have no intention of being worshipful?
We are all sinners, and everything we do is thus tainted. Examining our motivations is a constant struggle, and challenging us to perform such examination is always appropriate. Hence, my statement. My intent was to suggest that buying a $10,000 tuba might not meet the requirements for leading worship any better than a $5000 tuba, but the $5000 difference might make a real difference in the mission work conducted by that church.

You have hit the nail on the head. As an orchstra director in a church of 9000 I constantly have to do a balancing act between hiring outsiders and getting by with my member. I don't
hire outsiders on a regular basis anymore because the group has grown in numbers and musicianship to the point where unless a key person is out we don't need to. Special events, however are another issue. Our annual Patriotic concert is coming up and we will have 15 of our people and 9 outside hires. I am not going to put any of my dear friends in a position where they cannot succeed, so with only 2 joint rehearsals and 1 1/2 hours of tough music you do what you have to do, prayerfully. I am aware of churches who hire all the musicians for every service and I don't want to go there. My perfect church orchestra would be a ministry to it's members as well as the congregation. We work dilligently to put the very best music in front of God and our congregation we can. It's not perfect, not as good as a group of pros, but it is our best. It's the fattest calf we have to offer. On the other note I was sceptical of spending $4,000 of the church's money a few years ago and consulted the minister about the decision. I was concerned about the stewardship as we were right in the middle of raising a large sum to underwrite a mission effort. His question was, "Will it help us deliver a more powerful message to those in the pews?" I answered that it would and he said do it. He believed that if the message was delivered in a powerful way the flock would increase. Five years later the church has grown by 50% and the mission budget has quadrupled. A pair of timps didn't do that but making decisions prayerfully with a concern for the big picture put us in a position for God to bless us. You must be into missions but a larger base of supporters underwrites a larger effort. The key to making it work is the prayerfully part.

[rocksanddirt]

I agree very much with Tnb.al. You are certainly taking the right approach, to figure out how best to use the resources you have available. If our church had a gift of $10K or so earmarked for the music program, it's unlikely we'd buy a tuba as that wouldn't facilitate our worship experience as much as some other things. Every program is in a different place.