Transitioning from BBb to CC

[jonesbrass]

Count me in as one of those who believes in "cutting the cord" and forgetting about playing BBflat any more. Leave that for the folks with a great horn that happens to be in BBflat - - You've got a great horn which happens to be in CC, so focus on it and don't wonder "gee, maybe this piece would sound better on BBflat...". I go through that enough as it is when I'm trying to decide if I should play something on CC or F. The chances of you needing or wanting to play something in BBflat in the civilian world is pretty much nil.

I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of full-time paying & playing gigs in this country are with military bands. If you're skilled and lucky enough to play in one, you WILL play BBb from time to time . . . it's called the sousaphone. The flip side to that is even if you're not in a military band, you'll play whatever they ask you to play if they're cutting the check. I've done paying gigs on all the different tubas (F, EEb, CC, BBb), and I'm sure most pros have, too. You have to make a living. The bottom line is, you're a tuba player. If they pay you to play it on a (F, EEb, CC, BBb) tuba, you'd better be able to do it.
OTOH, if you're going to play in a community band or other non-paying gig, I guess you can play what you want.

[iiipopes]

One last note - a lot of folks think they've made the transition after they've learned some tough repertoire (and have bashed stuff like Rochut for awhile...), but the true test comes in being able to sight-read in clutch situations. Once that happens, you've left BB-flat behind for good (unless, of course you want to switch back...)

terry solomonson

This hits the nail right on the head.

[jeopardymaster]

Some very good advice above. Let me add a couple of things, products of my own transition experience.

1) Spend a lot of your time working on music that is new and unfamiliar to you. That way you avoid having to relearn stuff, which can tie you up. But make sure it's fairly melodic material - otherwise it's harder to know you're getting it right. I think the phenomenon to avoid is called "negative transference" -- any Psych majors out there please correct me.

2) If you can already play trumpet music in treble clef, great. Pull out some trumpet books and use regular Bb trumpet fingerings. If you can't, consider adding that complexity to your regimen. I think it worked for me in part because it took me back in my mind to my first instrument, and also got me into a kind of transposition mode - thinking about changing clefs instead of "now 1 is 0, and 2 is 1-2, and - uh..."

3) Don't be in a hurry to go back to BBb, but someday you should. Six weeks, six months, six years - whatever, that's up to you. But someday you may need to play a sousaphone, as already pointed out, or maybe your horn will throw a rod and you'll need a substitute tuba and alas! all you can find is a BBb. Be prepared.

[pierso20]

I didn't feel like reading all the posts before writing this, so if it was said then I apologize.

I will probably be in disagreement among people who believe in isolating horn fingerings. A new horn is a different horn and so you should know the fingerings for that horn. If you know your horn well, you should be able to play any piece of music for it, regardless if you've played it on a different keyed instrument.

Something that can really help you break your BBb auto finger abilities is to play things that you have played well already on BBb tuba. This is often the most FRUSTRATING thing you can do, but it can battle a lot of automation you have developed. It is not easy, and will make you angry, but I believe it helps break fingering habits the fastest. I did this often when I switched from BBb to CC and even when I began learning F. Each of those horns are different and require a different "finger thought process". My professor had suggested this as well...so I'm not the only one crazy enough to do this.

So try relearning things you have already played.

Also, when you are playing scales, try to learn them without reading music. Let your brain do the work. Sometimes we so caught up in reading music while learning a new keyed horn, we will go to the music before having a good concept of the horn. So while your learning to read music on the new toy, make sure to do chromatics, scales...as many things as you can from memory and from "figuring it out". Once you "know" the feel of your horn, music reading will come more natural and be quicker. (as mentioned earlier, if you really understood how the BBb horn worked, harmonic series etc, and structure of scales and how they feel on a tuba, then it shouldn't be a terribly difficult transition).

Good luck! learning a new key horn is VERY fun in my opinion. A different challenge than we're used to.

[Wyvern]

I learnt CC while still regularly playing Eb and am currently learning BBb, while still playing CC and Eb, so you don't have to drop playing in the other key of tuba while learning the new one. Although maybe it would come quicker if you did (assuming you don't have any important gigs in the interim)?

One thing which I have found is after getting the basics, no longer refer to fingering charts, but work out fingerings as you go along in your head - you will learn quicker that way.

You will no doubt suffer slip back into the 'old' key fingerings, particularly if tired, but they will get less over time in my experience.

[Rick Denney]

When I added F tuba, I learned it like a new instrument. Instead of trying to relate it to my big horn, I started over and went through the same process of learning fingerings as I did with my Bb tuba as a beginner.

So, go back to the method books. Write in the correct fingerings where they are printed, and start at Page 1. You'll go MUCH faster through the process, of course, but don't skip steps.

I wrote in fingerings occasionally just as I did when I was a beginner learning hard licks on the big horn. Make a copy and write in fingerings for a while, and then throw away the copy after you get a sense of the fingerings.

And play scales. They may be fingering patterns that you memorized on the Bb, but your brain will learn to associate a sound (pitch) with certain fingerings in addition to notes on the page. That's just as important as learning to press the right buttons for the notes on the page. The worst trouble I have playing C (which I have never learned) is that my brain is thinking Bb pitches in association with fingerings. I eventually overcame that on the F by building in a new pitch table in my brain.

Rick "who reads some keys better in F and others better in Bb" Denney

[Slamson]

Count me in as one of those who believes in "cutting the cord" and forgetting about playing BBflat any more. Leave that for the folks with a great horn that happens to be in BBflat - - You've got a great horn which happens to be in CC, so focus on it and don't wonder "gee, maybe this piece would sound better on BBflat...". I go through that enough as it is when I'm trying to decide if I should play something on CC or F. The chances of you needing or wanting to play something in BBflat in the civilian world is pretty much nil.

I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of full-time paying & playing gigs in this country are with military bands. If you're skilled and lucky enough to play in one, you WILL play BBb from time to time . . . it's called the sousaphone.

Sorry, I guess I should have emphasized "Civilian world".... the military is a whole different ball game.
And yes, I have I sousaphone that I can haul out to do dixieland, or run a bass line off a lead sheet, but don't ask me to sight read one of the other Wilder suites with it.

terry solomonson

[Todd S. Malicoate]

What an odd mixture of very insightful thoughts and bizarre things to say.

Don't think of it as a 'switch' to CC.
Think of it as a transition to a new key of living. Remember Stevie Wonder's 'Songs In the Key Of Life'? He did them all in unusual (sharp) keys. If you are switching for any reason except to improve, then don't. A BBb tuba is not a key, it's an instrument. Thinking of it in any other way is flawed in concept.

I couldn't agree more, and that's a very good way of putting it.

I wanted to be an orchestra teacher. Frankly, it's not possible on a BBb. Check out the Wagner etudes and excerpts on BBb. Then try to stop laughing.

Not possible? What do you mean by "orchestra teacher"? There have been several successful players, even in America, who have used Bb as their primary instrument. Ross Tolbert of the Minnesota Symphony comes to mind as a good example, and there are many others.

Wagner wrote etudes? Why would you use his music to make the point that Bb is the wrong tuba? Weren't his contrabass tuba pieces written with Bb in mind? Don't many (if not most) German professionals use Bb tubas?

Very strange post.

[Dean E]

"Just do it" (a Nike advertising slogan) applies to new tuba adventures.

The ancient history: I played Eb in grade school through my freshman year of HS, then switched myself to BBb (1958-65). After high school graduation, I did not play until about five years ago, when I got a great Eb horn (York 3-valve Eb monster, vintage 1917). I played Tubachristmases, and joined three community bands where my rusty musicianship improved and advanced beyond the high school level when I had stopped playing in 1965. A lot of people told me "Your horn sounds good," which was encouraging.

Then, almost three years ago, I got a pro-level, 5/4 CC horn (5 valves) and have played it exclusively in community bands, as well as a community orchestra, working in the customary assortment of sharp keys. In the orchestra, I get plenty of practice transposing in octaves from double-bass, trombone, and bassoon music.

My playing skills continue to advance (slowly) from the high school level (there's not so much oompah music, but still a fair share). I take the upper parts (at Tubachristmases and the Army's Tuba-Euphonium conference sight reading, for example) for the practice.

The BBb fingerings from 40 years ago mysteriously intruded on my playing in pieces like the Washington Post and Bombasto. That was surprising.

I will pencil in fingerings in the places I make mistakes, especially alternate fingerings for the low register. I also highlight accidentals and keys changes in the not-exactly-original copies of tuba parts in the bands' libraries.

I also take tuba sheet music and books with me on flights and sight read.

[jonesbrass]

I wanted to be an orchestra teacher. Frankly, it's not possible on a BBb. Check out the Wagner etudes and excerpts on BBb. Then try to stop laughing.

Not possible? What do you mean by "orchestra teacher"? There have been several successful players, even in America, who have used Bb as their primary instrument. Ross Tolbert of the Minnesota Symphony comes to mind as a good example, and there are many others.

Wagner wrote etudes? Why would you use his music to make the point that Bb is the wrong tuba? Weren't his contrabass tuba pieces written with Bb in mind? Don't many (if not most) German professionals use Bb tubas?

Very strange post.

I won't comment on the "orchestra teacher" bit , but I have to chime in on the whole BBb tuba thing.
At one time (and it's probably still the case in most German orchestras) the expected tuba for a "Kontrabass" part in a German orchestra was pitched in BBb. I seriously expect that has been the case since the parts were first played by a tuba. I guess the Germans are doing the impossible . . .
The fact of the matter is that if you can play, you can play. You should be able to play whatever you're asked to play on whatever instrument you have to play it on or are paid to play it on.
It bothers me that somehow BBb is percieved as a second-class instrument. I suppose it's a lot of marketing hype. Allow me to illustrate my point. Every year, young people in college and high school are told by someone they respect, and probably rightfully so, that they need to switch from BBb to CC. Well, what are they looking for in a CC? A large-bore, large-bell expensive CC that is designed to sound very much like a BBb tuba (big, dark, very supportive sound). The sad fact is that a good BBb is considerably less expensive than a CC. How do they pay for these things? Either mommy and daddy shell out for one (HOORAY!!!) or they add the tuba cost to student loans (eek!! )). So said individual now has a horn they can't play, and are very seriously in debt at least partially due to an instrument that will never pay for itself in terms of gig money.
I really think we as a community need to leave these kind of prejudices behind. You DO NOT have to play CC (or F, or whatever key) to be a serious musician. Or even an orchestral tubist. Does it help playing in sharp keys? Perhaps, but most of that is due to the skill of the player sitting behind the mouthpiece, not the horn. And, as a sectional player in an orchestra, you're playing with trombones pitched in Bb. It would seem that intonation with them would be a little easier if you had a tuba in BBb . . .
Sorry for the rant. Really. But I had to get that one off my chest.