Best or Favorite RECITAL Horn?

[Tuba Guy]

If it's not too late to change my vote, I would change it to the Harvard Subcontra tuba...that would be amazing...plus, the technical skills to perform solos (and I mean agile solos-Carnival of Venice, Czardas, etc) would really come through in a cool way on such a big horn (and would make my other playing that much better)

[UTSAtuba]

Thanks for the small ad, Matthew. I was wondering why you would choose the 186 as your recital horn. I've honestly only played BBb and CC (CC being my preference), so I really can't express any thoughts on using an Eb or F tuba on a recital...

Joseph

[tubadood5150]

I rather enjoy the tuba Ben Pierce uses. It sounds so great. I think it is a Miraphone. Could also just be his beastliness...but that horn is nice.

[J.c. Sherman]

If you could have a tuba that never, ever was used for anything at all except for solo playing in a recital setting, if the only performing you ever did, ever, was as a recitalist (maybe on tour) and you needed to pick a horn or horns that would only ever be used in this setting, ever - what would you use? This is an attempt to untangle people's ideas about multi use, do-it-all tubas. I am combing crumbs from the Freak Jury's collective beard.

Use your imagination. This is not reality we are describing here.

I suppose an apology is in order here... BUT...

My answer would be unchanged... I come to each horn from that standpoint - that of a solo instrument. My one exception is my 6/4. But everything else I pick comes from that... thinking as a melodist rather than as a backup instrument. Maybe I'm weird. The basso profundo doesn't change vocal chords for the recital, eh?

Maybe I shouldn't have chimed in... But a good argument could be made for the old 4v comp F Bessons or 983... They're nice too.

Ginnboonmiller certainly knows me! There's a tuba for every occassion!

J.c. (who loved ginnboonmiller's 3/4 Rudy and hopes the gods return it to him.)

[rocksanddirt]

well.....I don't think J.C. is unreasonable.

for me it would likely be a fairly large horn (a 4/4 BBb or CC) in order to give the richness that my ideal tuba sound has, while still being quick enough for technical passeges that solo music invariably has.

Of course, I'm not playing recital materials, and I don't expect to....

[Matt G]

I was wondering why you would choose the 186 as your recital horn. I've honestly only played BBb and CC (CC being my preference), so I really can't express any thoughts on using an Eb or F tuba on a recital...

Depending on the repertoire you are playing, the F can be a bit small. Stuff like the Lebedev, while not super hard, is a good program piece, and lays much better on CC or BBb. The (older) 186 is small enough to sound light (on something like an old Mirafone C4 mouthpiece) but with enough pipe to be nimble in the extreme low register.

I do agree that a good number of the pro soloists use the bass tuba. However, mainly tuba players and other informed musicians are the people listening to these guys. They need something that really allows for extreme pyrotechnics, and better upper register security. However most of us might be playing to a more general audience, and the ability to have dexterity in the register beneath the staff (where the tuba sounds most "tuba like") is important.

I mention the older vintage 186 for a few reasons:

-Most had easy intonation

-Lightning fast response

-Good lower register and secure upper register

Mirafones always seem to record well, and that usually indicates that they project well. Meaning you would not have to work as hard to be heard out front. Plus, they can be had for a reasonable price, which would allow funds for horns to be used in other ensembles (large contrabass, bass tuba).

[tubashaman2]

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[Alex C]

The basso profundo doesn't change vocal chords for the recital, eh?

The basso cannot change vocal chords but he does use them in an entirely different way. I had the priviledge of spending a small amount of time with two great basso singers, one from Covent Garden and one from the Vienna State Opera. They talked about tonal quality at length, different for each composer and especially for each character. In the opera, much energy goes toward projection; in a recital they concentrated on the best sound.

I don't know how that applies to a choice of instruments but the quote stimulated my memory.

[UTSAtuba]

I'm sure I'm touching on another (older) topic...but what is the main difference between an older 186 and a newer 186?

I also agree with what Matthew said on its characteristics for playing. So, +1 for the 186 CC as far as a recital goes. I actually plan on having my senior recital next fall, so this is a great topic for discussion.

Joseph

[Matt G]

I'm sure I'm touching on another (older) topic...but what is the main difference between an older 186 and a newer 186?

Main physical difference is the bell flare. Also, somewhere along the way they got the E in the staff to be pretty close open, and everything else is pretty close with conventional fingerings. The newer 186 seems to be more "automatic" in terms of pitch, but a bit blander in terms of sound.

"bloke" can go into more detail, but I only remember the E needing an alternate (1-2 instead of open) and the Eb and below worked fine with the short fingerings. Maybe the horn I played on had some cut slides, but only the E seemed out, and even then it was about 15 cents flat.

In regards to the G below the staff, I found a bit deeper mouthpiece seemed to fix that. While I did mention the C4 earlier, the Bach 18 (for the 186) and the Bach 7 (for the 188) seem to match these horns, IMHO, very well.

[J.c. Sherman]

... The basso profundo doesn't change vocal chords for the recital, eh?

The basso cannot change vocal chords but he does use them in an entirely different way.

I don't know how that applies to a choice of instruments but the quote stimulated my memory.

Both quotes apply - Tubas - all brasses, actually, are the most human and vocal of instruments. A vocal approach applies, and we adjust our playing for circumstance and venue. Timbre is such a difficult discussion topic, as the adjectives used to describe it are so vague. Suffice it to say, I don't think many are schooled enough in altering or "vocalizing" their timbre as part of their "voice" training on tuba. The brief solo in Mahler 5 (1st mvt) is a case in point - you just play it differently than you would the earlier measures.

Ron Bishop used to sing along with us in our lessons; it helped that the man has a VERY low voice! It teaches a vocal approach, and he would adjust his vowel or timber to mark portions of the music requiring intensity and spirit. It rubs off in the playing very quickly!

J.c.S.

[J. Laux]

Well, due to the fact that I have only played my 191 for extended periods of time and most of the other I have tried were in the so called "Elephant Rooms", the one that stood out and made me say "Wow" was the Kodiak. Everything I tried on it came out so easily, both high and low. What really got me on that horn was playing pedal parts comfortably, then being able to play a few things that I can barely reach on euphonium (Just started doubling on it last semester). The ease of things that give me so much trouble on the 191 were clear and set on the Kodiak. If I could pull off a massive new car loan while going to school, I would get the Kodiak and possibly use it instead of the 191 in our band excursions.

[J.c. Sherman]

I swear, if Yamaha would just make a 621 Eb or an 821 or 822 Eb... An 822 Eb might mean I never play another instrument as long as I live... bit of an exaggeration, sure, but what a horn that could be!

Those of you who pull off the thumb ring on your Yamahas...what do you all pull against? I would think it would inflict tendonitis in mere seconds from the leverage on your forearm!

J.c.

[k001k47]

Depends...
What's my recital repertoire?

Music. All of it. Solo.

Well if I had to play solo liturature AND maybe have to throw an orchestral excerpt or two in there, I'd get me a newerMW 2141 (I hear the old ones had pretty bad intonation). Great horn: awesome sound in all ranges. I've only played it in elephant rooms; owning one is more than likely not as great as I think it is.

OR
I'd use a YCB 621 if it was easier on the hands. Perhaps the 3/4 weril CC solves this... but I've never played one, so I can't say.

I swear, if Yamaha would just make a 621 Eb or an 821 or 822 Eb... An 822 Eb might mean I never play another instrument as long as I live... bit of an exaggeration, sure, but what a horn that could be!

Those of you who pull off the thumb ring on your Yamahas...what do you all pull against? I would think it would inflict tendonitis in mere seconds from the leverage on your forearm!

J.c.

I owned one without a thumbring... I forgot where I would place my thumb.

[The Jackson]

Without my thumb ring, I feel like a part of my soul is missing...

[Kevin Hendrick]

I swear, if Yamaha would just make a 621 Eb or an 821 or 822 Eb... An 822 Eb might mean I never play another instrument as long as I live... bit of an exaggeration, sure, but what a horn that could be!

... or perhaps a front-action variant of the 632 compensator (a YEB-633? ).

[The Jackson]

Has anyone ever heard of someone turning a Bb/C 621 (cutting) or F 621 (adding) into an Eb 621?

[J.c. Sherman]

Has anyone ever heard of someone turning a Bb/C 621 (cutting) or F 621 (adding) into an Eb 621?

I think about cutting a YCB-621 to Eb almost every day. The only reason I haven't is that I'm not sure my brain coult play two horns with nearly identical weight and posture and use 2 different fingering systems! Why Yamaha makes it in every other key except Eb is a mystery to me...

J.c.S.

[Kevin Hendrick]

Has anyone ever heard of someone turning a Bb/C 621 (cutting) or F 621 (adding) into an Eb 621?

I think about cutting a YCB-621 to Eb almost every day. The only reason I haven't is that I'm not sure my brain coult play two horns with nearly identical weight and posture and use 2 different fingering systems! Why Yamaha makes it in every other key except Eb is a mystery to me...

J.c.S.

It has been to me, as well, for quite some time. Seems like lengthening the F would be least expensive and easiest -- longer main tuning slide (probably with a loop in it for the extra length) and longer valve slides (if needed) -- and you'd have the 5th valve too, which *might* be useful ... On the other hand, that approach might play hob with the intonation -- hard to know without actually doing it.

[rocksanddirt]

'snip'
Those of you who pull off the thumb ring on your Yamahas...what do you all pull against? I would think it would inflict tendonitis in mere seconds from the leverage on your forearm!

J.c.

It's hard not to, but one shouldn't pull against the thumb ring when playing anyway. On a piston horn, it means you are not pushing straight down on the valves (causes additional wear, ease of sticking). On a rotory horn, it's less important, but the valve action doesn't take much force, but does put you in the habit of supporting the horn with the right hand, which will effect the smoothness of some playing combinations.