Have you seen this ?

[tofu]

But, Eric has a point--------the expression "Gestapo" (an evil, vile organization if there ever was one) is an unfortunate word to describe policies that Brian finds objectionable on Sean's board.

Brian is a great guy, an excellent musician and a tuba players tuba player. The kinda guy you can go have a beer with after a gig. He explained why he hasn't posted about the many educational things on his site. I myself have often wondered why Brian hasn't shared more of his insight on the board and now I understand why. This very thread is an example of why. Brain never said anything about Sean, but did object to the self appointed Tubenet Barney Fifes who have quite frankly driven from the board or into a lurking mode most of the high level tubists. There is a big difference between a guy like Brian operating out of his car and a place like Dillon's. Are they both charged the same fee? I don't know the answer to that question, but if they are - well that doesn't seem right based on the huge difference in size and scope. Quite frankly, the gentleman (Eric) doing all the complaining in this thread seems to have a tuba for sale almost constantly in the For Sale section. Perhaps he should pay a sponsor fee too. At what point does it slide from hobby to a business as in I'm making side money buying and selling tubas on Tubenet? There does seem to be a regular bunch of folks who aren't sponsors, but sure do seem to sell a whole lot tubas on the board. That stuff is for Sean to sort out and the whole thing is probably a whole lot more headache than he needs or wants. I'm sure his goal for the board is to basicly breakeven. The board is a wonderful resource and I for one would hope people feel free to truly express what they think and are indeed free to do so. This idea that one has to run every scenario to make sure no one is offended is absurd as no matter what you say it will surely offend someone somewhere.

In regards to Eric's statement to Brain of acting professionally like his mentor - well anybody who has spent any time with a group of brass symphonic musicians (especially low brass) outside of the hall knows that they can be a rowdy carousing lot and the language blue. The stories for example about AJ and Adolph Herseth and CSO low brass are legendary. Perhaps Brian should send Eric a copy of the Low Brass Players Creed.

And finally - just think of how offensive the Gestapo finds it that they are now being likened to tuba players!

[WakinAZ]

If I'm ever asked to pay a modest user fee for the privilege of using this site for selling (or complaining), I'll do it gladly. For the record, I break even or lose a little on most of the horns I sell here (ask my wife) - I just happen to switch horns a lot. Some other sites I frequent have a PayPal donation link; I let my conscience be my guide.

I swear daily and call people names under my breath all day long, but I don't type it out on public forums. (I also already have a copy of The Low Brass Player's Creed, and think it is funny.)

[Wyvern]

If I'm ever asked to pay a modest user fee for the privilege of using this site for selling (or complaining), I'll do it gladly.

And of course that is the alternative to sponsorship. A site like this has got to pay for itself one way or another, unless Sean is rich enough to sponsor us all (which being a musician, I doubt to be the case). So he has either got to charge companies such as Wind Song Press to advertise, or we have all got to pay a membership fee for the use of this forum.

[brianf]

Brain never said anything about Sean, but did object to the self appointed Tubenet Barney Fifes who have quite frankly driven from the board or into a lurking mode most of the high level tubists.

Bingo!

I have never had anything bad to say about Sean. I have been on this list since he was at Indiana over 15 years ago. Sean identifies himself.

My beef is with some people that go around without the balls to identify themselves, they deserve to be called anything. When they identify themself, they deserve to be called by their proper name, until then it works two ways, if they want to go under an assumed name, I will assume they have a different name - call them Barney Fifes, the Tubenet Gestapo or whatever.

This should be a professional forum meaning you identify yourself, no assumed names. Then maybe many will get out of lurking mode.

BTW - has anyone noticed that I am the only one who has written about this thread who uses their real name?

[WakinAZ]

I forgot to mention, I also buy horns and accessories from other TubeNet members and some of the TubeNet sponsors. I am also active in the discussion forum, not a lurker. I like this online community and dislike it when people misbehave here; if that makes me a "Barney Fife", I've been called worse.

Anyone I buy or sell with (or correspond with to any degree off the discussion board) gets my name, and, if needed, address and PayPal info. I just prefer not to have my name all over the internet in this day and age of i.d. theft, excessive social networking invites, etc.

PM me Brian, if you need my full name - I'll be happy to provide it.

Eric "who does not think online anonymity and masculinity are mutually exclusive" L.

[brianf]

Well Hello Eric! It's nice knowing that you are not Alfred E Neuman. If a big tuba job comes up maybe I could suggest that maybe Eric is the guy for the gig. See, networking is a BIG part of the music world - we are all in business, we all have a great product to sell - ourselves!

I also work outside the music world. One of my clients is an organization of CIOs where we put together meetings. A big part of this is having time to network - talk to each other and maybe work out a deal, buy, sell, partnership, trade information and maybe pass on job information. When I do a class, I like to get as many from the class out for lunch, yes there are those who don't want to spring ten bucks but at one of these lunches two people traded information and within a week someone got a job. Let's get this to Tubenet - there isn't a single person on this list, from Gene Pokorny and Jim Self to a high school kid, that cannot use work of some kind. As far as myself, I want people to recognize a name with a face and where ever I go, there is usually someone who recognizes me from Tubenet. That would not occur if I went around with a picture of Alfred E. Nueman over a fake name!

Away from Eric - This thread has gone on a while but I have a question. Where is Sean??

[TexTuba]

If you truly represent the Windsong Press site, I need to rethink any business I want to do with it.

If you truly represent Newburgh, I need to rethink any visiting I want to do of it.