New Miraphone Siegfried Kaiser BBb

[Rick Denney]

Please don't take this as a troll, but do you think BBb contrabasses will have a "come back"? Aka, more common than CC in the "professional" world...

Yes, I think high-quality Bb tubas are making a comeback. No, I do not think they will become more common than C tubas among professionals in the United States. But many big-name pros are adding a large Bb to their arsenal for certain works that just seem to work better with them. And I think Miraphone would really like to see more of their instruments in the hands of European pros who use Bb as their standard contrabass (considering that for them any contrabass is a supplemental instrument).

Having high-quality Bb tubas in the U.S. market also finally realizes that not all amateurs are unwilling to spend big money on tubas. Fact is, probably more high-end tubas go to amateurs than to pros, for the simple reason that there just aren't that many pro gigs out there.

Photography is the same way--amateurs provide volume for photography equipment that wouldn't exist solely on the strength of the professional market.

Rick "happy with his current collection, but happy to see new options appearing" Denney

[AFtuba]

Hi,
As Rick Says,there are professional tuba players also in the states that added BBflat tuba to their arsenal, like Gene Pokorny, the biggest market for BBflat professional tubas is still germany, but more and more great conductors with some knowledge about tubas, like Daniel Barenboim, are asking specific instruments, like BBflat tuba for Wagner, or the Cimbasso for italian operas.
So is not only a question what a tuba player want, but also what kind of sound a conductor would like to hear from his orchestra.

[rodgeman]

Is there going to be a piston version of the BBb or just the CC?

[TYA]

Is their any new word on this tuba and when it comes out or how expensive it will be?

[Brown Mule]

Rick, amateurs that work in the corporate world and play in community bands, church groups,etc. around the country have more money to spend on 6/4 high end tubas than pros. Sort of like having a Shelby Cobra in the driveway to go back and forth to the grocery store.

[k001k47]

Rick, amateurs that work in the corporate world and play in community bands, church groups,etc. around the country have more money to spend on 6/4 high end tubas than pros. Sort of like having a Shelby Cobra in the driveway to go back and forth to the grocery store.

..and then the pros get a nice deal when said amateurs get bored of their new tubas.

[Brown Mule]

You're right "KOO"---------It gets all bent up and valves will be in perfect condition from never being played.

[Brown Mule]

You're right "KOO"---------It gets all bent up and valves will be in perfect condition from never being played.

[TYA]

Is their a BBb on the market that Bigger then this 6/4 BBb tuba?

[Walter Webb]

Rick, amateurs that work in the corporate world and play in community bands, church groups,etc. around the country have more money to spend on 6/4 high end tubas than pros. Sort of like having a Shelby Cobra in the driveway to go back and forth to the grocery store.

..and then the pros get a nice deal when said amateurs get bored of their new tubas.

Any of you corporate tubist fellers with lotsa money wanna sell off a Kanstul 66-S at a steep discount?

[THE TUBA]

Is their a BBb on the market that Bigger then this 6/4 BBb tuba?

I don't know about the market availability, but maybe the 6/4 Rudy Meinl BBb. That thing is massive.

[TUBAD83]

Rick, amateurs that work in the corporate world and play in community bands, church groups,etc. around the country have more money to spend on 6/4 high end tubas than pros. Sort of like having a Shelby Cobra in the driveway to go back and forth to the grocery store.

This may be true but having been in a number of community bands over the years, the majority of players I had played with have 4/4 tubas that they had bought used. I know of no amateur tuba player locally who owns a 6/4 and that is probably because of practicality. Do you need a tuba that big and do you want to haul around something that big and bulky? Two very important questions for those of us who are "north of age 40" and not as physically fit as we once were.

If there is a market being developed for 6/4 tubas, I truly doubt this market would take amateurs into consideration.

JJ

[GC]

There are a considerable number of community band members who have older 6/4 tubas out there, like the 2XJ Conns and the big Martins. New 6/4 horns are another matter.

[Wyvern]

Do you need a tuba that big and do you want to haul around something that big and bulky? Two very important questions for those of us who are "north of age 40" and not as physically fit as we once were.

If there is a market being developed for 6/4 tubas, I truly doubt this market would take amateurs into consideration

There are a few 6/4 (and larger = Jumbo) owners who are not in the flush of youth and manage fine. A friend of mine says it no more effort to carry his Neptune than his Eb, and it is no issue to me either

The whole point of a 6/4 is the rich broad tone they produce - a smaller tuba can never put a foundation under a band like a 6/4.

My guess is that far more 6/4 are sold to amateurs than professionals - the latter market is very small.

[imperialbari]

15 years ago I heard an estimate from a high end wind instruments maker saying that 95% of even the most expensive custom models were bought by amateurs. If the amateurs didn’t take this share of the market, it wouldn’t be cost efficient developing new models.

Klaus

[Bob Kolada]

The whole point of a 6/4 is the rich broad tone they produce - a smaller tuba can never put a foundation under a band like a 6/4.

But, thankfully, a smaller tuba will sound more like a musical instrument and less like a TUUUUBA. But you all know how I feel by this point.

Bob"who does like big tubas, for some things"Kolada

[TYA]

has anyone heard a comparison of some excerpts like the ride and fountains of rome compaired on BBb and CC? I only can find recordings on CC tuba.

[Mitch]

Played this horn today. Wow. Pictures to follow. But really, wow. It's big, it's fat, it has a great feel to it. I'm not sure I recall correctly, but I think it's going to be in the $15k range.

Man, does it resonate.

[Rick Denney]

Rick, amateurs that work in the corporate world and play in community bands, church groups,etc. around the country have more money to spend on 6/4 high end tubas than pros. Sort of like having a Shelby Cobra in the driveway to go back and forth to the grocery store.

I wrote that several months ago--I had to go back and remind myself what I wrote.

We are accustomed to thinking of amateurs as guys like me, for which the term "hobbyist" is most appropriate. We played in high-school bands and have continued to play in community bands. I suspect I define one extreme end of the hobbyist range, given the tubas that I own and play. But most hobbyists have one instrument and it is usually something not too unlike what they played in high school (or what they lusted after in high school). That's more likely to be something like a Miraphone 186. If they lust after a big tuba, it will probably be an old Conn BAT or a Cerveny kaiser.

And then we describe pros as folks who stayed in college until they won an audition.

But there are lots of amateurs in between these, many of whom have music degrees but who never found a gig and ended up making their living doing something else. They may play in community bands, but are more likely found in big-city wind-symphony groups. They often own and play C tubas, and they often make bigger investments in their instruments than hobbyists do, except for the more extreme hobbyists like myself.

I know many amateurs who were professionally trained and who play the crap out of whatever they own. They play the best instruments they can afford, and choose them with care, because they have the necessary discernment skills. They often buy their high-end instruments the ways pros often do: New, or previously owned only by other pros. Even guys like me do not fall into this category. I have some discernment skills, but not the willingness to drop that kind of cash, so I end up with deeply used instruments that passed through many more hands before coming to me.

Rick "who has a lot of tubas but only one bought new or nearly new" Denney

[Mitch]

First, I saw it...



Then, I had to try it...



I want one. To give a sense of scale, I'm 6'5". Just kidding. I'm 5'8". While it's quite large, it's well-balanced and not at all difficult to hold for someone of my average height, yet broad-shouldered frame. Were I to have one I played regularly, though, I would definitely look into getting a stand. It's a big mama. I've mentioned here before I have a Martin 6/4 BBb (front-action 4+1). The things I love about the sound of the Martin this horn has a ton of. If you're considering a rotary Kaiser, this is the horn. Period. Apples and oranges from the Fafner. I like the Fafner, but there's something about the way this horn feels when you play it. Velvety feel. I've always made my decisions about the way a horn feels to play, and this horn feels like something I want.

Big thanks to Roger Lewis, who couldn't have been a more gracious host.

My trip to the Miraphone booth was also my first chance to try a Petrushka F. LOVE it. It's my new $avings goal. What a fun little horn.