Do tubas pitch characteristics change over time

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naplesbobT
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Re: Do tubas pitch characteristics change over time

Post by naplesbobT »

As quaint and "old school", as it might sound, there was a theory in use at
one time that to accelerate "patination", that you added milk to an instrument
and allowed it to sour.

Harold T. Brasch, my mentor, "Mr. Euphonium", former long time soloist with
the U.S. Navy Band, in D.C., one of the finest euphonium performers of any
age, and the person credited with introducing the large bore, upright bell, Besson euphonium to the U.S., mentions the following, in his book, "The Euphonium and 4 Valve Brasses, An Advanced Tutor", published and copyrighted
in 1971. pages 160/161, (Excerpted for brevity)

"Patination: Copper, bronze, or brass, is patinated when it is covered with a fine oxide or rust. This change in apearance is usually regarded by a layman
as a tarnish. However, in certain intances patination is highly desirable. Patination is beneficial to conical bore horns. The tone of a euphonium sounds
more mellow as the inside of the tubing becomes so coated. There have been
occasions when this patination has been hurried by an injection of a quart of
milk, allowing it to sour and then flushing clean. The action of a player's saliva
will patinate a new euphonium in about a years time, with good use. This coating will not be removed with washing or scrubbing, however it is removed
with a good brass polish, or an acid bath. (note, RBT, check with your repair
tech, as to the affect of their bath technique, on this). As a matter of long
experience, a new euphonium, or one that has been recently relacquered or replated, will not produce the fully sonorous tone that is expected, unitl it becomes patinated on the inside of all the tubing that makes up the instrument."

Arthur Lehman, and Karl Humble, also two of the finest euphonium players,
and former career members of the U.S. Marine Band, in Washington, D.C.
studied with Harold, and reviewed his text, for him, prior to it's publication.

It is my opinion that the study of a professional musician on a 4/5 valve
brass instrument, is not complete until they have studied Harold's text.
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Rick Denney
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Re: Do tubas pitch characteristics change over time

Post by Rick Denney »

naplesbobT wrote:Brasch: "The action of a player's saliva
will patinate a new euphonium in about a years time, with good use. This coating will not be removed with washing or scrubbing, however it is removed
with a good brass polish, or an acid bath.
Well, every preacher has his heresy. There is nothing in sour milk that is not removed by "washing and scrubbing". Saliva leaves calcium deposits that will cause dezincification if not cleaned using an acid bath. Either Mr. Brasch's instruments did not last long, or he had them chem-cleaned and just lived with the results, or (and this is where I'm putting my money) he changed more than the horn did over that first year.

Musicians are finely tuned to subtleties, and notice things others don't. The better the musician, the more subtle those observations. But being attuned to something does not infer a proper understanding of its cause.

Rick "agreeing with the 'with good use' part of the above statement" Denney
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sousaphone68
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Re: Do tubas pitch characteristics change over time

Post by sousaphone68 »

The tubas or my pitch has stabilised despite being on a mouthpiece search for the last month. The factory mouthpiece that came with my travel tuba a bad 24AW clone has added a couple more pedal tones to my range but I don't like the narrow rim. I am trying a Denis Wicke 1L and just got a Yamaha 66d4 that is working well with my Sousa and tubas. Just need to find a cheap 5l for the travel tuba.

I have come around to the theory that I have changed rather than the tuba but have enjoyed the experience of breaking in a new instrument and the responses to the thread.
Cant carry a tune but I can carry a tuba.
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naplesbobT
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Re: Do tubas pitch characteristics change over time

Post by naplesbobT »

In reply to sousaphone68

my recent experience with mpcs is almost the opposite of yours, I have been
using a VB 24AW. I found the rim a little to wide, as it rested to close to the
bottom of my nose. I purchased a Schilke 66, (funnel). The rim was just right, but I noticed an unfavorable difference in tone color. There has been previous
discussions on this site about the bowl type (24AW) providing additional color
via mixing. I tend to agree with this now. Also, I seem to note an increase in upper range, but low and pedal notes seem a little more difficult with the S66.
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Lingon
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Re: Do tubas pitch characteristics change over time

Post by Lingon »

Lars Trawen wrote:...It's your embousure getting stronger after long time intensed playing, causing higher pitch...
Hmm, interesting. I have experienced the opposite, ie. when playing very much, over a longer period, the tendencies seems to be that the pitch goes down and I have to push in the tuning slide because, I thought, the emboushure became more relaxed?!
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Re: Do tubas pitch characteristics change over time

Post by Rick Denney »

Lingon wrote:
Lars Trawen wrote:...It's your embousure getting stronger after long time intensed playing, causing higher pitch...
Hmm, interesting. I have experienced the opposite, ie. when playing very much, over a longer period, the tendencies seems to be that the pitch goes down and I have to push in the tuning slide because, I thought, the emboushure became more relaxed?!
It a depends on what your initial problem is.

Rick "who tends less flat when well-practiced" Denney
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sousaphone68
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Re: Do tubas pitch characteristics change over time

Post by sousaphone68 »

Hello the 24aw clone that came with the travel is a very poor clone the bowl and throat are approx correct but the rim is no where close it came with the travel tuba I used it with an open mind but it is not suitable for the travel tuba I tried it in my other tubas and was surprised that a bigger mouthpiece gave me a bigger range but the rim was not to my liking I have sourced a Denis Wick 1L for my full size Eb and want to try a 5L in the travel tuba as the French horn player in a concert band I play with stuck his horn mouthpiece into my mp and achieved a very pleasing sound, he plays Wagnerian Tuba alot and liked the sound of the travel tuba with the f slide in.
The 66D4 I got on eBay for £12stg which was too good to pass up and it plays well in my sousaphone.
I learned to play on a BH Imperial with a Denis Wick 5 so am looking forward to trying the mouthpiece again I am hoping it will help me tame the Eb slide as F fingerings are taking longer than I thought to take root. I do not like the tone I am getting on the travel tuba particularly from Bb on the stave down to f just below they don't sound as good as the rest.
Cant carry a tune but I can carry a tuba.
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