There Must Be a Logical Explanation

[NDSPTuba]

Doug,

I actually am of the opinion that the embouchure type that you are talking about is correct, but one problem I'm having as a sufferer of embouchure dystonia, is I still have symptoms even when trying to hold true to my type of embouchure. I know that part of my problem lies in probably not really knowing how to implement my type of embouchure because I did indeed use an unconventional embouchure for mid and low range when my problems started. My high range I've always thought was correct. Anyway, I thought the video explained what is happening with Embouchure Dystonia very well and explain why the OP had different results with the kelly mouthpieces.

[Doug Elliott]

To generalize, the players I've seen who ended up with problems had been using incorrect form for either high range or mid/low range, that worked reasonably well but it was still incorrect, for many years before it stopped working. Practing and getting good at playing wrong goes a long way toward a successful but short career.

In my experience, very few people have any understanding at all of what constitutes "correct form" for an embouchure type, or even what "embouchure type" means at all, especially judging by some of the responses in the thread about somebody finally accepting his upstream embouchure.

[TubaRay]

I am well aware that most people reading this don't really care about what I have to say, and many probably think it's total BS because it is contrary to what Arnold Jacobs taught. But it's not "oil and water" two totally different ways of playing. They're both really the same way of playing... as long as the mechanics are correct, either by chance or by design.

Speaking for myself, this couldn't be farther from the truth. I would like to hear more. I do not believe what you written about is BS. I would definitely like to learn more. I am especially interested in assessing characteristics of the "proper" embouchure.

[ShoelessWes]

I am especially interested in assessing characteristics of the "proper" embouchure.

I'm not Doug, but I don't think he advocates "proper" embouchure.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about finding your embouchure type, learning how to play within that type mechanically correct, and then making sure not to change the airstream direction when changing registers. A lot of tuba players have a flip right in the middle of their range, where they go from playing with an upstream embouchure to a downstream embouchure. This break is pretty easy to spot and causes a lot of problems.

Wes "not qualified to discuss embouchure problems or focal dystonia, but who's read Doug's stuff for years elsewhere, and is a big Reinhardt fan"

[Doug Elliott]

Right, there is not "one" correct embouchure, or even three as in the three major types. Everone has individual facial structure characteristics that varies what is specifically "correct" for them. Some players find it on their own, through luck or the "Song and Wind" approach. But if it were that simple there would be a whole lot more monster players than there are.

Wes, the break you mention is one example of what I call "type-switching" and yes it can be very destructive. However, the "dystonia" issue is usually a different kind of type-switching.

TubaRay, it's too bad you're so far away from me, but I know there is a lot of interest in Texas so maybe I can get down there sometime in 2012.

[Chuck Jackson]

I want to Thank everyone who has chimed in on this subject. I certainly didn't want to ignite a fire storm, but this is the TubeNet I remember.

Doug, I certainly would like to sit down with you sometime and have you evaluate this curious phenomenom. More than being interested in playing again, I certainly would like to have someone look at it and see if they can figure it out.

Brian, I admire the teachings of Mr. Jacobs very much. My whole contention with this approach is that it nullifies the physical act. IMHO, if his approach was the sine qua non, EVERYBODY would be a major player.

I think a blend of the two is a perfect match of form AND function. As I tell my string players and wind players, we drill to inculcate the process so we may forget it and make the music. I firmly believe there is NO substitute for drilling patterns on any instrument and constantly reminding every student that by doing so you will be able to better create the music. YMMV.

As for me, I will continue to toot for a half hour or so 4-5 days a week on my Kellyburg. Every once in a while it FEELS and SOUNDS right. More of a nice reminder that I did spend 30 years playing the tuba and enjoyed it rather than wanting to do it again. Freud was right:sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Nice thing is, I can put it down and go do my real job: teaching the next generation to RESPECT and LOVE music.

I wish you all a fond farewell and the Happiest of Holiday Seasons. If you happen to be in Las Vegas this weekend, TubaChristmas will have center stage at the Fremont Street Experience at 1 on Saturday. Rehearsal is from 10-12 at the Beam Music Center on the campus of UNLV. Steve Kunzer has lost any reasonable semblance of sanity and asked me to conduct again this year. Maybe I'll get it right this time. Thanks for your time.

Chuck

[TubaRay]

Right, there is not "one" correct embouchure, or even three as in the three major types. Everone has individual facial structure characteristics that varies what is specifically "correct" for them. Some players find it on their own, through luck or the "Song and Wind" approach. But if it were that simple there would be a whole lot more monster players than there are.

Wes, the break you mention is one example of what I call "type-switching" and yes it can be very destructive. However, the "dystonia" issue is usually a different kind of type-switching.

TubaRay, it's too bad you're so far away from me, but I know there is a lot of interest in Texas so maybe I can get down there sometime in 2012.

I would welcome the opportunity to learn about this from you, regardless of where that may be. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[UDELBR]

Every once in a while it FEELS and SOUNDS right.

Nice when that happens, eh?

[MackBrass]

Hey Chuck,

How are you, long time no speak. Reach out to Tom Coffey, he is a member of this board and is going through rehab for the same thing. He is a great guy to talk to.

Regards,

Tom