contrabass valve trombone - more than Italian overtures

[Sandlapper]

Who other than Wessex imports these? Does anyone make one of the in this price range that is BBb? (I've been playing low brass quartet music with 3 trombones for past year and a half, all with f attachments and my tuba sounds significantly different. I would like a better blend).

Thanks for any info

[PaulMaybery]

It's been some time since the original post, which came at about the same time that my Wessex cimbasso arrived.
I experienced some of the same issues as Joe ("Bloke") but in spite of them all, the instrument is quite fine.
Similarly, the leadpipe had been bent (I suppose in shipping) and was not noticeable at first. This did cause the 3rd valve slide to bind on the mouthpipe. Then I noticed the top brace on the mouth pipe next to the 1st valve was bent. A little careful persuasion and all was fine. The 5th valve thumb lever was also bent and unreachable, but again this was not a difficult fix. A hand bar, I strongly agree, needs to be installed for the right hand. I would actually prefer mine to protrude someone further and also with a thumb ring for leverage when engaging the the 5th. I've been gathering the parts for this and will experiment with a detachable brace that will allow the horn to fit back into the case. Incidentally flute headjoint crowns make nice endplugs for the tubing on the brace. Not expensive either. There is a brace near the 5th thumb lever that I would like to move out the way either up or down. The thumb lever for me needs to be extended as trying to reach it causes me to have to tuck in my elbow and hyperextend? my wrist. Not the best when playing for extended periods of time. Some sort of hand brace for the left hand would also help but I have not yet figured out that one as it does involve reaching the trigger. I also concur that the instrument does wobble as Bloke mentioned and it seems much of it is at the elbow at the bell as well as the floor peg. This is a bigger issue than it may seem. I also feel some movement at the leadpipe which is also unbraced. I do plan to install bracing at those two points. All in all I have not experienced intonation problems that I can not adjust with the embouchure or the first valve slide. I would however prefer that the 1st valve trigger be set so that the slide is at its longest pulled length and for the trigger to push it in when needed, which for me at least is much less often than pushing it out. I did find that the pedal F while of good open timbre is quite flat. It does lip up nicely but some of the resonance is lost.

I have been pleased that it can respond well to various mouthpieces. A solo F is lighter of course and a BBb or CC is MUCH stronger. I love the F solo for playing recital pieces such as the Lebedev and the Tomasi "Etre...".

Regarding the valves: Once I tweaked things a bit, they are "disturbingly" smooth and quite. Yes the springs are a little too strong, but for now I can live with that. I did experience that when the bearing plates were tapped all of the way in that the 1st valve did bind/seize totally. I gently lapped the back bearing ever so lightly and now it works perfectly. I also replace the clear bumpers with a black neoprene which for me seems to be a bit quieter. Venting will also be necessary on the 1st valve and perhaps all of them. The compression is so tight that ambient atmospheric pressures in and outside the horn seem to cause things to "pop" all too frequently.

I also found that for my personal ergonomics the valve spatulas needed to be raised. This was an easy fix as well by gently straightening the bend on the push rods. With just a little bend I got about a half inch rise. Much more comfortable. I am not crazy about the downward bend on the end of the spatulas. In more aggressive playing I find my fingers slipping off.

Since I do have my own personal shop, it is convenient and inexpensive to make modifications. I'm 67, and while I have rather strong chops, I am also cranky, finicky and arthritic so ergonomics are a big issue for me. I have enough problems without wrestling with the horn.

Well there you have a "skinny" from my point of view. I understand that Dillon music is now offering this instrument along with Wessex. Mine happens to be a Wessex in silver. That was my choice based on my personal preference. I also understand that while the different labels do look identical, they are not necessarily from the same manufacturer. Someone more knowledgeable perhaps can shine some light on that.

[imperialbari]

Could the flat fundamental be related to the mouthpiece?

When I played trumpet in a German band, I used my Giardinelli J4 very deep horn mouthpiece in my Meister K. Wolfram rotary Bb trumpet (via an adapter). The pitch and intonation was very good in the playing range. Also the fundamental was perfectly in tune, only it was an Ab not a Bb. That problem was solved when I got customized threads on some real trumpet mouthpieces, so I could use the J4 rim.

Klaus

[PaulMaybery]

Have tried about 20 or so mouthpieces all with the same result.

[PaulMaybery]

Hi Joe.
Thanks for the suggestion. Money is not an issue. It's not the mp. Been using a Monette 94 F, G&W Beltane, Sidey Solo, Miraphone C4, Wedge Sasha Johnson Solo and the SM Solo tweaked for me. On the larger side, the Monette 94, G&W Baer, Sidey Classic Helleberg, Wedge H2, SG and a PT 88+. My trusty and lucky Conn Helleberg, ca 1930, also the same results. But a little flat ain't bad and I can lip it up, just not ideal.

[J.c. Sherman]

A "Cimbasso" from 1860 is an upright serpent. So you will not find a contrabass valve trombone until after it was invented by Pelliti. Cimbasso is an Italianate contraction of "corno do basso"... bass horn. The reason we use a modern valve trombone in F, Eb, CC, or BBb on these parts is that Verdi himself gave his approval for the substitution in his works.

Truly, every serious tubist or operatic tubist should read the Meucci paper on Cimbassi. It will inform your entire approach to the literature in question.

If you enjoy it for other works, enjoy; I use it for pops pieces when the scoring has the tuba acting as a 4th trombone beneath the bass boner... and some other works.

[The Big Ben]

Using the everybody-loves-to-hate-'em-cause-it-don't-sound-like-an-Alex' M-W 5450 tuba on everything else (hot mic...needs to sound purdy...the 5450 makes a purdy sound) ...Sousa, Copland Fanfare, West Side Story, Empire Strikes Back, Disney-Frozen, 1812... ...Rudy is jealous.

Sounds like an "All-American Evening". Good luck and have fun!