The price of horns is Too Damn High!

[bisontuba]

We'll see if currency volatility shifts dramatically next week with the vote of Brexit, and what happens to the pounds sterling/Euro/Dollar, etc....

Prediction;

Provided the UK exits; nothing will happen (immediately)

Just like "sequestration" was going to be the end of the world here.

And nothing happened.

Oh, the inevitable will still happen, but for the near term, nothing.

But if the UK exits, they will delay the inevitable happening to them, while the inevitable moves closer to Germany and France.

You heard it here first!!

[/quote
Quite wrong....

You heard it here first....

[bort]

We'll see if currency volatility shifts dramatically next week with the vote of Brexit, and what happens to the pounds sterling/Euro/Dollar, etc....

I can't wait until the Brexit vote... So we can stop hearing the annoying non-word "Brexit."

BTW, I think America is the original "Brexit."

[anonymous4]

I didn't read half this thread, but honestly, why should I? All this "debate" is boring. Once Trump gets in there, he'll just be able to beat up the bad guys and it'll be like 1950's America again when everything was perfect.

[Three Valves]

We'll see if currency volatility shifts dramatically next week with the vote of Brexit, and what happens to the pounds sterling/Euro/Dollar, etc....

I can't wait until the Brexit vote... So we can stop hearing the annoying non-word "Brexit."

BTW, I think America is the original "Brexit."

The "smart" money was on doom and gloom then, too!!

[roweenie]

Socialism = serfdom to the state

Capitalism = serfdom to concentrated wealth

Distributism = true economic (and therefore actual) freedom to the individual

https://ethikapolitika.org/2014/09/07/d ... c-society/" target="_blank

[Donn]

...but that is precisely why they DO work best.

Where are these places? Assuming they don't already make tubas, but wouldn't that be great, they'd probably be very reasonably priced?

[Donn]

Well, there you go. You and I can no doubt have a lively discussion about the respective virtues of your "chaotic" model vs. my classic anarchy (Kropotkin et al.), but we aren't going to get any tubas out of it, because for whatever reasons none of this has historically been viable.

Production scale is often a factor in price. Of course, mass production is typically cheaper, but also there's going to be some slack between capacity at a given facility, and the actual production based on demand. As production gets closer to capacity it ought to be more efficient and prices get more competitive. In short, we may simply not be buying enough tubas.

[WillDellinger]

...what have I done...

[Three Valves]

...what have I done...

[bisontuba]

To what do we attribute the increasing price of new horns? Specifically, was looking a at the 2250. Over only a few years, the new price has ridden by around $3000.

Did ownership and management at Melton/Meinl-Weston change during that period in time?

Maybe no one saw my question.

In the past few years, the exchange rate has steadily become more favorable for the $. Melton group (B&S and others), sold to a larger conglomerate. If the sale prices of these instruments has increased by the amount claimed during a period of dollar strengthening (and any commodity 'shortages' have been going on for a while now), a change in desired profit-margin as dictated from the top seems more than plausible to me.

Big +1....

[tofu]

If you think something costs too much don't buy it and in effect vote with your dollars.

Honestly, I'm amazed at the amount of companies that still make tubas and the variety of tubas offered. I don't know how they make any money much less a decent ROI. Manufacturers have the right to set prices and they will look at maximizing their profits. Sometimes that means selling fewer units but at a higher price and higher profit per unit. Sometimes the underlying cost structure changes. One of my degrees is in accounting -specificly cost accounting (although I'm not an accountant) and I don't think many folks realize how complicated the costing structure is and how it can change over time for a specific product for a lot of different reasons. You've got labor, government regs, commodity cost, capital equipment costs, marketing, overhead, distribution, transportation, currency issues, tariffs, taxes, inflation, supplier issues etc. Many tuba manufacturers buy valvesets from others for instance. Perhaps you've got a deal for so many valvesets at a set price. Then your horn becomes real popular. The supplier sees that as well and when you go to buy more valvesets the price jumps 50% Maybe you can buy elsewhere and maybe you can't. Of course it is a complicated issue because you probably buy other valvesets for other horns and perhaps other parts from this supplier. Maybe you get a decrease in the valvesets cost for your popular horn by increasing your orders for other valvesets etc. I have no real knowledge of the tuba industry but it is no different than other manufacturers in that costing and pricing are far more complicated than most think.

And if you look at say the price of a Chinese copy of a 186 I would venture to say that it is roughly equivalent to what a 186 would cost you say 40 years ago and that is not even adjusting for decades of inflation. Granted it is not as good as 186 in some respects but still a bargain. I personally think tubas have become more affordable than they have been in a long time. Sure you could buy a 186 in 1976 for say $1700 but a steak cost $2.22, a new car $3542 and the median house was $45,000. Median wage was $9225 So a tuba took about 18.5% of the median wage earners yearly pay. Today MackBrass will sell you a 186 copy for $1895 the median family earned $54,462 IN 2014 So a 186 cost them a little less than 3.5% of their yearly pay.

So it cost 18.5% of the median yearly wages to buy a 186 tuba in 1976 and pretty much the same tuba (clone) today requires just 3.5% of the yearly median yearly wages. Perhaps - The price of horns is Too Damn Low! -> from the manufacturer's view

[circusboy]

And if you look at say the price of a Chinese copy of a 186 I would venture to say that it is roughly equivalent to what a 186 would cost you say 40 years ago and that is not even adjusting for decades of inflation. Granted it is not as good as 186 in some repsects but still a bargain. I personally think tubas have become more affordable than they have been in a long time. Sure you could buy a 186 in 1976 for say $1700 but a steak cost $2.22, a new car $3542 and the median house was $45,000. Median wage was $9225 So a tuba took about 18.5% of the median wage earners yearly pay. Today MackBrass will sell you a 186 copy for $1895 the median family earned $54,462 IN 2014 So a 186 cost them a little less than 3.5% of their yearly pay.

So it cost 18.5% of the median yearly wages to buy a 186 tuba in 1976 and pretty much the same tuba (clone) today requires just 3.5% of the yearly median yearly wages. Perhaps - The price of horns is Too Damn Low! -> from the manufacturer's view

You can't compare a real 186 to a clone in this analogy. It'd be best to compare apples to apples. A new 186 now costs $8240 (4-valve BBb); that's 15.1% of the median yearly wages stated. Still a bit lower than 1976, but not by nearly as much as you suggest.

To Bloke: You've said that the world economy is going to collapse for many years now. Even as close as we came in 2008, cooler heads prevailed, and the world continues with its currency system. I can't tell if you're more of a boy-who-cried-wolf or a Chicken Little.

[tofu]

And if you look at say the price of a Chinese copy of a 186 I would venture to say that it is roughly equivalent to what a 186 would cost you say 40 years ago and that is not even adjusting for decades of inflation. Granted it is not as good as 186 in some repsects but still a bargain. I personally think tubas have become more affordable than they have been in a long time. Sure you could buy a 186 in 1976 for say $1700 but a steak cost $2.22, a new car $3542 and the median house was $45,000. Median wage was $9225 So a tuba took about 18.5% of the median wage earners yearly pay. Today MackBrass will sell you a 186 copy for $1895 the median family earned $54,462 IN 2014 So a 186 cost them a little less than 3.5% of their yearly pay.

So it cost 18.5% of the median yearly wages to buy a 186 tuba in 1976 and pretty much the same tuba (clone) today requires just 3.5% of the yearly median yearly wages. Perhaps - The price of horns is Too Damn Low! -> from the manufacturer's view

You can't compare a real 186 to a clone in this analogy. It'd be best to compare apples to apples. A new 186 now costs $8240 (4-valve BBb); that's 15.1% of the median yearly wages stated. Still a bit lower than 1976, but not by nearly as much as you suggest.

Yes I know what a current 186 price is but the question the OP really brings to the forefront is affordability.
Many people think the current 186 clone actually better in some repects than the 186 itself. The OP stated the costs of tubas was too high - and it really isn't for the average buyer of a tuba. Very few tubas manufactured get sold to Pros. The cost of a decent tuba for the average buyer has never been better if they are will to in effect buy the Generic. Do you insist on brand name drugs when the equivalent generic is available? So if Lipitor cost $400 for a 3 month supply two years ago and you had no choice. Today a generic costs $40. It's a statin. Two years ago you payed $400 for the statin. Today you can still pay $400 or $40. Most people pay $40 and they have the same product. We are pretty much at that point with 186 clones.

[thatawkwardtuba]

Sellers of tubas need to realize that most buyers don't carry $11k on hand. Many sellers of other instruments have financing options that work quite well for their instruments, although they are less expensive. I have a feeling that once sellers begin financing their instruments, the prices can go down.

In my defense, I have never taken an economics class so I have no idea how the whole thing works...

[bisontuba]

Compare prices of Miraphone to M/W from 10 years ago to today.... I think Miraphone is not too bad in its increases compared to M/W Buffet that just keeps increasing prices up & up....

[anonymous4]

Again, I didn't read half of this crap, but what it really sounds like is that we need to eliminate money. I'm going to start saving chickens to exchange them for my next tuba. In the post-2016 wasteland, that will probably be the best currency.

[boobentuben]

Again, I didn't read half of this crap, but what it really sounds like is that we need to eliminate money. I'm going to start saving chickens to exchange them for my next tuba. In the post-2016 wasteland, that will probably be the best currency.

let us know how all that accumulated chicken shxx works out 4 you

[PaulMaybery]

Chickens? Nah, I think I would sell eggs. (I'll keep the chickens) and oh! ... sell chicken s#$t for the veggie garden. Then maybe I'd sell shovels and watering cans. But chickens would need to be my "golden goose" and produce an on going supply of product. Once I started selling them (chhickens) everyone would be in the chicken market. If the chicken market gets flooded, then I would need to sell something else. ... maybe tubas. All those rich chicken hucksters would be prime market. Not that any of the tuba buyers would ever get a cent of return on their investment. When that market gets flooded I would sell dent machines. and so it goes. Make your fortune on what the fool wants to buy, not neceesarily what you want to sell.

[bisontuba]

Chickens? Nah, I think I would sell eggs. (I'll keep the chickens) and oh! ... sell chicken s#$t for the veggie garden. Then maybe I'd sell shovels and watering cans. But chickens would need to be my "golden goose" and produce an on going supply of product. Once I started selling them (chhickens) everyone would be in the chicken market. If the chicken market gets flooded, then I would need to sell something else. ... maybe tubas. All those rich chicken hucksters would be prime market. Not that any of the tuba buyers would ever get a cent of return on their investment. When that market gets flooded I would sell dent machines. and so it goes. Make your fortune on what the fool wants to buy, not neceesarily what you want to sell.

sure...anything (though it helps if it's one of your own passions as well) for which people are clamoring...and (again) avoid storing "savings" (excess/profit/whatever-you-want-to-call-it) in an ever-collapsing fiat currency - or in anything that's value is only expressed only in the form of an ever-collapsing fiat currency. ALL fiat currencies devalue-and-collapse, and they all devalue faster and faster until their ultimate collapses.

http://dailyreckoning.com/fiat-currency/

Joe, you need to start reading some good articles.....and don't worry, Pres HC will fix all

[bisontuba]

Yawn...

BTW, so glad to see how Tennessee is doing 'as the new South...'

"Make America White Again" campaign sign causing controversy in Polk Co.

Updated: Jun 22, 2016 2:11 PM EDT
By Ken NicholsonCONNECT

POLK COUNTY, TN (WRCB) -
A campaign sign in Polk County is stirring up a lot of controversy.

The sign, located off Highway 411 near Benton, says "Make America White Again" and was put there by Rick Tyler, an independent candidate in the race for Tennessee's 3rd congressional district seat currently held by Chuck Fleischmann.

Tyler told Channel 3, he has no hatred in his heart for "people of color." He says the sign's message is that America should go back to a "1960s, Ozzie and Harriet, Leave it to Beaver time when there were no break-ins; no violent crime; no mass immigration."

Several Channel 3 viewers have called or sent messages to our newsroom, saying the signs do not reflect the feelings of the entire county and that they want them down.

Tyler said, "I respect their right to have an opinion. I believe the majority of the people in the county like it."

"I saw people taking pictures beside it right after I posted it," added Tyler.

Channel 3 asked Tyler if he feared for his safety or backlash from the campaign sign. He said, "I don't fear it. I welcome it, and I will respond with the application of truth."

Tyler posted a second sign on Highway 64 with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s famous "I Have a Dream" quote written over a White House surrounded by Confederate Flags.

Other candidates in the District 3 race include incumbent Chuck Fleischmann, who's facing Allan Levene and Geoffery Suhmer Smith for the GOP nomination.

Michael Friedman, George Ryan Love and Melody Shekari are vying for the Democratic nomination.

Tyler is running as an independent candidate along with Topher Kersting and Cassandra Mitchell.

Voters will head to the polls for Tennessee's primary elections on August 4.

The general election will be held November 8.

Read more: http://www.wsmv.com/story/32277324/make ... z4CKmDrCzO" target="_blank