Sound/Projection question?

[doublebuzzing]

The tuba has to be one of the hardest instruments for recordings to do justice. Just listen to the recordings of the CSO with Jacobs on tuba. On many of them he is almost unheard, but in concert you can definitely hear or feel his presence. I go to Minnesota Orchestra concerts sometimes and the tuba has unbelievable presence and then the next night I listen to the radio broadcast and you can hardly hear him (and those are professional mics).

[PaulMaybery]

Part of projection is more than just volume and focus but the timing of the release of the note. It is a very subtle effect, but getting the tuba note out in the air, a micro second (almost inperceptably) ahead of the chord leads the listeners ear to your sound. It also serves a second purpose in creating a solid foundation for the ensemble intonation. If the tuba enters exactly in time with the ensemble there is little or no chance that the others have time to tune to your pitch, nor will you have much affect in driving the chord. This is not implying that you should rush, but simply be aware of timing and where the tuba sound should be positioned in a chord. My feeling is that in using this concept one really does not need to blow as hard. I suppose it is more about playing smart.

[MaryAnn]

And I'll point out that that anticipation of the beat, or playing at the "front" of the beat, sounds like everything is in sync out in the hall. I was very familiar with our local symphony tubist's playing and it drove me a little nuts in small groups because he was always ahead of the beat. But with the orchestra, it was perfect for the audience.

[Peach]

On the topic of digital recorders but not wanting to derail this thread...

What are opinions of Tascam vs Zoom H1 or H4 if one is looking for something fairly basic to record practice / concerts in a variety of spaces without messing with external mics etc?
Thanks!

[Rick Denney]

And I'll point out that that anticipation of the beat, or playing at the "front" of the beat, sounds like everything is in sync out in the hall. I was very familiar with our local symphony tubist's playing and it drove me a little nuts in small groups because he was always ahead of the beat. But with the orchestra, it was perfect for the audience.

Yes.

The big Holton is felt more than heard; the Hirsbrunner (also very big) punches a hole in the band even when the band is too loud. Each has its place. Neither is invisible, but the Hirsbrunner can definitely be more conspicuous, and just like with any power tool, care is needed.

But that isn't the significant issue here. The issue here is a microphone that rolls off at 200 Hz, and a speaker that rolls off at 300Hz (200Hz for the headphones). A low Bb has a 58-Hz nominal frequency, so the phone will only record and play the higher overtones in the sound. That can even change the apparent pitch. Also, the microphone is omnidirectional with a limited range and no stereo imaging, and in a resonant room, the room effects will overpower the line-of-sight sound to a greater extent than will those directional and stereophonic ears.

When I have recorded myself, I used an old Sony minidisc recorder and a nice Audio Technika stereo microphone. The modern digital recorders also use a binaural microphone setup, and the digital front-ends are quite linear in their response and easy to calibrate to the built-in microphone. But you still have to put them close to the musicians in a resonant room.

Rick "who never had any trouble hearing a good player with a 6/4 tuba, even from the back row of a 3000-seat auditorium, using actual ears" Denney