Been using Blue Juice / Viper Oil at about 4:1 (give or take) for nigh on to a year now in multiple horns. I like the combination. I oil profusely: slides and leadpipe. I do the majority of my oiling before putting the horn to bed after I play. The insides of the slides are clean, clean, clean.
I did some testing with Lamp Oil (liquid paraffin) / Slick 50 in about 3:1 ratio. It lubricated fine but neither of the components evaporates, so you get oil laying around in the horn and dripping out of the valves. I'm not sure what liquid paraffin is. All the Google evidence I could find says it's just another name for mineral oil. But the "Harmful or fatal if swallowed" on the bottle makes me wonder about that because, as far as I know, you can slug down mineral oil if you really need to take a dump. Maybe they mean it's possible to drink enough of it to get the grizzly runs and die from dehydration ... but I digress.
I'm currently testing Blue Juice / Slick 50 at about 3:1. For slides, the Blue Juice evaporates and leaves a nice, slick coat behind if you keep doing it and let it build up. I haven't used it long enough to say how it's going to work overall for valves and keeping the inside of the horn clean. I think it might be possible (don't know for sure) that the leftover Slick 50 might be a little thick for tight rotors.
Future plans include testing charcoal lighter fluid + Slick 50. Those horns from China and India make good guinea pigs.
Blue juice?
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SplatterTone
- 5 valves
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mTaUrBkA
- 3 valves
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On my rotary horn I use hetmans and nothing else. I do use blue juice on the school's crappy tubas though because they supposidly gets rid of all the junk and build up. And those tubas and sousa's havent been fixed/cleaned since before I was born. It works alright....but not as well as hetmans. The smell really gets to me. When I have to take a big breath with my mouth close to the mouthpiece, i can feel it later with a soar throat.....I guess I kinda walk into that one myself though.
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Lee Stofer
- 4 valves
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:50 am
When I was retiring from the Army and starting my business, I bought a gallon can of generic Blue juice from one of my suppliers, and thought that would be a very good and economical choice for shop use. However, as I started using this on some of the summer school band repairs that I took in that first summer, they just seemed "not quite right". On one piston tuba in particular, I dried out the casings and pistons, and decided to try a bottle of Hetman valve oil that I'd been issued in the Army. The difference was immediately noticeable.
Very soon afterward, I contacted Joe Hetman, who was very patient and courteous, and ready to answer my many questions. He makes a product that is synthetic, non-toxic. And, unlike other synthetics that contain silicone or something worse, Hetman products are designed specifically to be compatible with conventional lubricants. I have been using his products to guarantee a consistent level of quality in all of my repairs ever since
Besides running his Musikwerks business, Joe is a gigging musician, a trumpeter by trade. But, he brings the experience of having been a mechanical engineer and having worked for one of the Big 3 automakers in Detroit to the table, and is not just some tinkerer working in a garage. If enough people are really interested in the science of brass instrument lubrication, we should get him to come and give a clinic or two at ITEC. I have heard him speak at the NAPBIRT (Instrument Repair Association) annual Conference, and he is very thorough in his covering of the subject.
A word about other valve oils; The conventional stuff I frequently see, including the "Music Makes You Smarter" bottles, is denatured, or deodorized kerosene. If you don't mind sniffing a little carcinogen, that's fine. The Al Cass, instead of being made of normal petroleum distillates, is formulated from petroleum in such a way as to remove the less volatile carbon chains, so that when it evaporates, there's NOTHING LEFT. That will help keep things clean, but your protection can be gone before you know it. It was made for tight-fitting trumpet valves, and works fine on a trumpet if you re-oil a lot. But, larger valves in particular need more viscosity that will stay in place, just like a diesel truck needs heavier oil than a small car does. And, some valves are fitted tighter than others, so no one oil viscosity will work best on everything. To that end, Hetman has developed about 23 different lubricants for various wind instruments. When I saw that he made 3 separate slide oils for non-stationary slides, I though he must be kidding. But, it works for me, so I continue to use it.
I have heard a few comments about yellow deposits, particularly from rotor-valve instrument owners. I have seen an occasional bit of yellow in the oil under the back caps, and I just wipe it out and apply a little more oil. I'd suggest that if your instrument is clean-enough, you could probably get away with using most anything on it, but slopping a lot of oil into your valves on a daily basis will probably shorten the life of your slide grease, so be sure and wipe-down and re-grease your slides often, too. If oil or water is leaking through your slides, they are too loose - get it checked out.
I personally like to fully chem-clean and bright-dip my horn, dry it out completely, then lube it with slide grease and the appropriate valve oil, and then basically forget about it, except for re-oiling about twice a month.
Very soon afterward, I contacted Joe Hetman, who was very patient and courteous, and ready to answer my many questions. He makes a product that is synthetic, non-toxic. And, unlike other synthetics that contain silicone or something worse, Hetman products are designed specifically to be compatible with conventional lubricants. I have been using his products to guarantee a consistent level of quality in all of my repairs ever since
Besides running his Musikwerks business, Joe is a gigging musician, a trumpeter by trade. But, he brings the experience of having been a mechanical engineer and having worked for one of the Big 3 automakers in Detroit to the table, and is not just some tinkerer working in a garage. If enough people are really interested in the science of brass instrument lubrication, we should get him to come and give a clinic or two at ITEC. I have heard him speak at the NAPBIRT (Instrument Repair Association) annual Conference, and he is very thorough in his covering of the subject.
A word about other valve oils; The conventional stuff I frequently see, including the "Music Makes You Smarter" bottles, is denatured, or deodorized kerosene. If you don't mind sniffing a little carcinogen, that's fine. The Al Cass, instead of being made of normal petroleum distillates, is formulated from petroleum in such a way as to remove the less volatile carbon chains, so that when it evaporates, there's NOTHING LEFT. That will help keep things clean, but your protection can be gone before you know it. It was made for tight-fitting trumpet valves, and works fine on a trumpet if you re-oil a lot. But, larger valves in particular need more viscosity that will stay in place, just like a diesel truck needs heavier oil than a small car does. And, some valves are fitted tighter than others, so no one oil viscosity will work best on everything. To that end, Hetman has developed about 23 different lubricants for various wind instruments. When I saw that he made 3 separate slide oils for non-stationary slides, I though he must be kidding. But, it works for me, so I continue to use it.
I have heard a few comments about yellow deposits, particularly from rotor-valve instrument owners. I have seen an occasional bit of yellow in the oil under the back caps, and I just wipe it out and apply a little more oil. I'd suggest that if your instrument is clean-enough, you could probably get away with using most anything on it, but slopping a lot of oil into your valves on a daily basis will probably shorten the life of your slide grease, so be sure and wipe-down and re-grease your slides often, too. If oil or water is leaking through your slides, they are too loose - get it checked out.
I personally like to fully chem-clean and bright-dip my horn, dry it out completely, then lube it with slide grease and the appropriate valve oil, and then basically forget about it, except for re-oiling about twice a month.
Lee A. Stofer, Jr.
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Lee Stofer
- 4 valves
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- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:50 am