"cimbasso"/"Verdi hated the tuba"/etc.

[J.c. Sherman]

You are a wry wit, Bloke

Okay, I gotta find a way to convert that into my avatar - that's awesome

[J.c. Sherman]

More like a WTFophone! What is that? The bell looks a bit large-throated for a cimb.

Bloke, I'm still gonna use it!

J.c.S.

[Lingon]

Well, well, well, is this the 'real' ophicleide?! If so, when will it be available from Tianjin?

[cjk]

Bump.

[pjv]

Sorry, talking about cimbasso's is out.

If you want to troll a thread, "York Copy" is what you're looking for.

[Lingon]

Sorry, talking about cimbasso's is out.

If you want to troll a thread, "York Copy" is what you're looking for.

Strange, as soon as someone dig out an older thread some thinks it is about trolling

However, I know it is out to talk about cimbassi, now it is in to play the things instead.

Ophicleide on the other hand...

[pjv]

Sorry. It was my attempt at humor.

[J.c. Sherman]

Sorry, talking about cimbasso's is out.

If you want to troll a thread, "York Copy" is what you're looking for.

Strange, as soon as someone dig out an older thread some thinks it is about trolling

However, I know it is out to talk about cimbassi, now it is in to play the things instead.

Ophicleide on the other hand...

...deserves extra attention?

[Bob Kolada]

That's a "MikeICR" horn.

[Lingon]

...Ophicleide on the other hand...

...deserves extra attention?

Exactly!

It would be nice if we reach a situation where ophicleides are used as much as cimbassi. Especially now with the slow but growing trend to use smaller trombones.

[Bob Kolada]

Jazzophone?

[GC]

Flatunets?

[J.c. Sherman]

Andre Previn got the nomenclature right; Eb contrabass clarinet and Bb double-bass clarinet.

Contra-alto is below alto; i.e. tenor. Contra =/= 8vb.

J.c.S.

[Donn]

For me (and these were actually my introduction to concert band), they're both contrabass clarinets, Eb and Bb. Maybe one is more contrabass than the other, who cares. It's common usage, too, so there's a chance we could prevail over the contra-alto brain damage.

While we're on nomenclature (this is not only off topic for this thread, it's a reference to an off topic digression in another thread, but ... hey, thread's no use to anyone in the first place) I thought it was funny that the antique bassoon in the museum picture in that begräbnisergrüvung thread was "Bassoon in C". I don't know, maybe it is, but just off the top of my head the cited dimensions seemed similar to normal modern bassoons, so it would be in the same key - F. Bassoon is like tuba, non-transposing.

[Donn]

Are you sure those are basses?

[imperialbari]

Some are happy if their basses are gillded.

[Lingon]

I just noticed that the Bayerische Staatsoper will stream the opera Macbeth by Verdi, May 11th, over the net. A chance to see/hear if they use a modern cimbasso or something else

[Dan Satterwhite]

I can't believe I came home from Traviata last night and read 37 pages of this...
The Internet is funny...does everyone else get the Florida Grand Opera La Traviata ad on the right of the screen when reading this thread, or just us in the area?

Anyway, here are my thoughts, for what they are worth, on the subject. In our present production, Jay is playing cimbasso and its just the right sound. Gives the section a blended, cylindrical, trombone sound. We are using two large bore tenors, and myself on bass. Jay and I both own and play Cimbasso regularly in the area, and I'm glad to say, are very revenue-positive with the instrument. For me, the best sounding cimbassos are for Rudi Meinl and Meinl-Weston, because they are not trying to use some sort of baritone or euphonium bell flare like I see in some of the pictures in this thread...they are really shaped and proportioned like a trombone.

Having played bass trombone, contrabass trombone, and cimbasso at one time or another on the 4th part of a whole lot of Verdi and Puccini, here is what I think works best when using modern instruments...for me (with a section of two large tenors and a bass on 3rd)

Verdi (including the Requiem): cimbasso
Late Verdi (Otello, Falstaff) contrabass trombone
Puccini, except for Turandot: bass trombone
Turandot: Contrabass trombone

In Verdi, the part is often independent of the rest of the section, playing a bass line. It is easy on the cimbasso to darken up a bit and blend with the basses. There are some technique issues that are easier with valves, but nothing too difficult with a slide. In my opinion, Otello is the most technically challenging that Verdi wrote, and it's doable on both bass, and with some work, on contra. If I got called to play Otello tomorrow, I'd play it on bass trombone.

For Puccini, I think all trombones sounds the best. And even Pines of Rome sounds good with four trombones, like the score indicates.


Eric Carlson discussed the airstream when playing cimbasso, and that he likes it better when a trombone player plays it. I agree that the sound is more appropriate when using a faster, less-wide, trombone-like airstream. Sitting beside Jay, he definitely has developed this skill. The best I ever heard a person sound when first trying a cimbasso was Steve Dumaine, as he sorta blows the tuba that way, too.

Dan Satterwhite

[Jay Bertolet]

/bow to Dan, my wonderful section mate!

See you in a couple hours for the matinee...

[Todd S. Malicoate]

That's a lovely post, Dan, and thanks so much for the helpful information.

I can't help but be left wondering, however...why doesn't anyone ever mind the two large bore tenors?