A Comparison of BAT Wraps (horn dorn with observations)

[eupher61]

Rick mentioned dystonia in relation to BATs.

I've often wondered about that. But, the one player afflicted by that miserable condition really didn't play a BAT all that much. He was more of a lyric and technique player, which is why he had the BAT he did, since it is not a chore to play. Or, at the time, WAS not a chore for me to play. He had no trouble either.

Focal Dystonia is evil. But, the question I have is ---- Are there as many big names of other brass instruments affected, as there are tubists? I don't even hear of euphoniumists. This is not a request to make names known on here, in fact PLEASE DON'T, unless you personally are victimized by FD and want to talk about it.

I asked a horn playing friend, who said she thought there were a few hornists, but no one really prominent and not that many that she knew of. It's scary.

[Cowgo]

The Conn loyalist 34J Ochestra Grand you pictured is likely a custom horn in a couple respects. The reported bore, .810, is larger than the usual .773 bore. The horn depicted also had modifications made to add a fifth valve that was not completed. Here's my early 34JConn Orchetra Grand:

[Nick Pierce]

Regarding BATs and FD...
-Constant embouchure stress from extended extreme loud playing. Of course...

I do think that some players are involved in activities while holding a BAT that DO cause FD.

Or perhaps instead of being the culprit, the BAT is in the wrong place at the wrong time? How often does one see "extended extreme soft playing" and pull out the BAT? And who wouldn't gleefully reach for the biggest horn they could reach when confronted with "extended extreme loud playing?"

If loud playing is a cause, then a BATs involvement is more or less coincidental.

[Wyvern]

How often does one see "extended extreme soft playing" and pull out the BAT?

In actual fact a BAT can be very effective for 'extended extreme soft playing' with the vibration as much felt as heard.

[Wyvern]

I reach for my SECOND biggest horn that has a big sound, but is set up such that I can easily put an edge on the sound. It has all the volume, but with more "heat".

A Thor?

[Wyvern]

It is a size of tone with a distinct color. It is not a weapon. Problem is that many here use them as such. We are butchering music when we make decisions in such a manner. If we cannot play high, low, loud and soft enough on a 4/4 contrabass we are not in need of an F or a BAT; we are in need of practice.

Very well put - could not agree more !

People on here often talking about 'getting the hand' if playing a BAT. If you get 'the hand' it is YOU and not the BAT at fault. A 6/4 tuba can be played as quietly as a smaller tuba if properly controlled. Blaming your tuba is like blaming your car if you get had for driving too fast!

[Rick Denney]

Yep, scary... I think BATs absolutely do not cause FD. In some ways they could even help prevent it. I do think that some players are involved in activities while holding a BAT that DO cause FD.

Of course, I never suggested that BATs cause focal dystonia. I said that dystonia sufferers were associated with certain models of BATs known for being demanding of the player, in the observation of one person who seemed to me qualified to make the observation.

Please don't make more of it than that, at least not based on my comments. I could see where that observation might apply to someone trying to make a small tuba sound big as much as someone trying to make an unfocused big tuba sound focused.

Rick "noting also that the trend in BATs and the trend in FD may have the same cause and not be related to each other, per se, and yet result in the same observation I recounted" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Sorry Rick, I know this will come as a shock to your system, but my comments had nothing to do what you wrote*. Someone else**, in one of their posts, expressed a few thoughts. That's what illicited my post.

It was a reasonable assumption for me to make, given that I first mentioned it. But since I like Steve better than you, I thought I would complain to you instead of him.

Rick "back at ya" Denney

[Nick Pierce]

Rick "noting also that the trend in BATs and the trend in FD may have the same cause and not be related to each other, per se, and yet result in the same observation I recounted" Denney

[/quote]

That was what I meant, I think. My point (with way to many meaningless incorrect words added on) was that if focal dystonia is partially caused by loud playing and most people like to play loud on BATS (regardless of whether that's what they're meant for), there appears to be a connection but isn't. Sorry.

How did I put that big foot, all of it, in that there mouth?

[Rick Denney]

I believe that there *could* be a tendency for someone to end up with hamburger-meat chops by overworking over-and-over to get some blend-with-the-bass-trombone "edge" out of an otherwise somewhat dull-sounding and jumbo-size tuba.

The additional point being that some big tubas are easier to get that color from than others, and the more colorful big tubas don't necessarily see the same correlation with hamburger-meat chops noted by the observer with whom I discussed it. His suggestion was that we choose tubas that are dark, darker, darkest, and then kill ourselves trying to overcome that dark sound.

Question: Did Arnold Jacobs play as loudly as tuba players try to play today? When I heard him, it seemed so, and this was only a couple of years before he retired. Yet his York seemed to cause him no problem (yes, I know it's anecdotal, but it also fits with the way he described his approach to the instrument). To those of you who have played it: Is it livelier and more colorful than some of the other big tubas you've played? My sense from descriptions I've had recounted to me is that it is.

I suspect some will use a big tuba the same way I use a big hammer--to get the job done without having to swing as hard. That's consistent with Jacobs's descriptions. Others will take any given hammer to its limits just because they can. Maybe that's the connection. I'm sure the big boys think about this a lot.

Rick "noting that everyone is trying to play louder, not just those who have suffered because of it" Denney