lost wrote:I'm starting the rumor that recording bells are making a comeback.
You heard it here first.
Believe it or not.... I sell just as many recording bell tubas as ones with upright bells. Recording bells will never be as popular as they were before modern amplification but there is definitely a good use for them in noisy or outdoor venues.
By-the-way.... I hope JinBao does NOT try to clone the 2XJ tubas. It will take them twenty years to 'get it right'.... maybe.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker" http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
I still feel the usage indoors is underrated. An upright bell points up or up at an angle. This may not be the best place for ones sound. Some hall ceilings through your sound backwards or stop it dead in it's tracks. Others can over emphasize the sound making subtle passages a nightmare.
A front bell can be pointed in various directions allowing the player to choose the best acoustic placement for their bell. For example churches can have a real nasty echo. With the bell pointing towards the audience you can increase the chances that the listener will hear the bass at the same time as, lets say, the trumpets.
(For general school clonage, the 2341 clone is probably the best choice. I know that's not what was asked but, for overall intonation and playability, the 2341 design has the 20J beat.)
Truly an American Classic! Every time I read a thread about these magnificent horns I lift my 25J to playing position, rattle my house and smile. I especially love all of the complaints, cant play in tune, cant play soft, cant get any color in the tone etc...I'm always pleasantly surprised by the capabilities of the horn. For those of you who have access to one of these horns try playing some lyrical stuff above Eb in the staff and use the lower octave fingerings or adult fingerings (max length) ...rich and colorful beyond imagination!
I'd be happy to see it in production reissue or clone. It should sell with a nice oak library desk chair.
No. With its nested valve block, mouthpiece-tolerant, good fundamental articulation and intonation, virtually unchanged for a century, and the availability of "crash parts" in the morgue of any school band instrument repair shop worth its tools, the King 1241/2341 is the best choice for a high school band.
I have two 20Js and recently purchased a Martin "Medium BBb" .
The 20J is awesome for filling a room. I can put out more sound than the other guys with their full size upright tubas. The Martine is easier to carry around handle so I am practicing more but I prefer to perform with the Conn. Particularly when I'm the only tuba.
Instructor of Tuba & Euphonium, Cleveland State University
Principal Tuba, Firelands Symphony Orchestra
President, Variations in Brass http://www.jcsherman.net
What are we talking about here - the short action valves, which are a really distinctive feature of the 20J, or would a 20J bugle with a conventional piston valve set meet the requirements?
Does anyone think the short action valves are faster or in some way more playable?
Could a 26J be better in some way than a 36J with (I think) the same bugle and conventional piston valves?
Sort of twisting things around a bit. But.... I've always thought of the Conn 'short-action' pistons (and the Holton 'short-action' ones for that matter) as being nothing more than a 'gimmick' to sell tubas. There were several other 'short-action' patents including one that had two ports instead of one. Nothing has ever come up to the simplicity of a conventional piston.
It's true that there is a size limit for a round bore but .750" has always been just fine for German piston tubas and of course the Miraphone 1291 has an even larger bore.
In my humble opinion.... a tuba with the open bugle of the Conn 20J and a .750" bore (or larger) front-acting valve section would be ideal.
IF JinBao came out with such an animal I would get in line to give it a try. Copying the 'short-action' valves would be a waste of time.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker" http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
Hmmm . . . short action valves . . . no. Effect on intonation not absolutely certain, but they bounce on release, and in the past that's driven me crazy. Or crazier.
Mongo bugle and big bore . . . yes. That room-rattling, down to the bone sound is hard to beat or match.
Monstrous bell flare on upright bells . . . no. A reasonable 20" bell for this size horn I can live with, but 22-26" bells are way too much.
Fixed vs detachable bells and recording vs upright . . . fixed upright is my choice. I've always thought a removable bell is too much of a pain in the butt to fool with. As for recording bells, unless they're used in a marching band or to overcome lousy acoustic situations, I don't care for them.
For a marching band, a 24J clone made with sturdier metal than the typical clone might be a good choice. The sound of a section of recording-bell 2XJs on the field (ala the Jacksonville State Marching Southerners with the bone-shaking sound of 30 of the beasts) is hard to beat. For concert work, I'd love to have a Conn Grand Orchestra clone with a slightly smaller bell and a standard-stroke front valve section that offers slide-pulling access, a well-in-tune bugle, and that glorious room-filling sound. And, of course, a ridiculously low price.
Edit: I'd also like to see a front valve set that doesn't sit far out in front of the horn combined with valve tubing that doesn't look like tangled spaghetti. Holton-style BATs have valves so far in front that it's uncomfortable to reach around so far, while the old Conn grands have valves in reasonable places but their valve tubing is convoluted. I don't know if that's even possible to fix both, but I can only hope.
JP/Sterling 377 compensating Eb; Warburton "The Grail" T.G.4, RM-9 7.8, Yamaha 66D4; for sale > 1914 Conn Monster Eb (my avatar), ca. 1905 Fillmore Bros 1/4-size Eb, Bach 42B trombone
Which neatly describes my 36J. I don't see the point in "updating" to the new fangled 20J series.
Except piece-by-piece. My 36J has a top bow implant that came from a 2XJ. As built, it's not an exact fit - but
that's why Joe gets the big bucks, right?
For those of you who have access to one of these horns try playing some lyrical stuff above Eb in the staff and use the lower octave fingerings or adult fingerings (max length) ...rich and colorful beyond imagination!
