B&S Piston Valves

[imperialbari]

I haven't read through all of the thread, but your description of a cycle betwen cleaning and then getting stuck again makes me ask whether the interior lining of your case or gig bag is a fluffy fabric? Does the receiver get in contact with, or even rub at, that fabric?

It takes no more than one single piece of fiber to harm valve action. I know from at least my baritone and from my euphonium.

The remedy is simple:

Take a tightly woven, not a worn, kitchen cloth and wrap it around the leadpipe, so it doesn't touch or rub against the lining of the bag or case during packing, storing, or unpacking.

Klaus

[bort]

It's been a few weeks... any luck?

[Dan Castillo]

I actually met with Alan, and he had determined that this was not the problem, and he referenced working on your horn.

Still no progress on my end. Cleaned out my horn myself, with multiple rinses, snaked the slides, and tried a dual oil suggestion I got via PM, and that was working really well for about a week, but even if I clean out the valves and redo the process, I get my sticking valves back within 24 hours. There are a few more names I didn't have before via this thread (thanks guys), so I'm going to start contacting some people to try and get some answers.

Keep em' coming if you've got any ideas.

That's a bummer. I hope you get it figured out and whatever is wrong with your horn isn't what happened to Jeff Keller's PT.

[apsapienza]

It's been a few weeks... any luck?

I still am experiencing some issues. Since posting this I've tried just about everything suggested - two chem cleans, my own scrubbing down of the casings and slides with a snake and some Dawn following Bloke's instructions as best I could, replacing the valve guides with delrin guides (courtesy of Martin Wilk, who has been instrumental in my education of the issue, and a wonderful help), my repair guy lapped the valves to the casing and heated up solder joints to see if any of them would pop and relieve tension. As it currently stands, 2nd valve is still being a problem. I only cleaned it just last night, so I'll need some time to play it to see if any other residue gets kicked up and gums up the valve again, but I rinsed it with a snake multiple times last night, so hopefully that's not the issue.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Did you buy this horn new? How old is it?
Mark

[apsapienza]

Hi-
Did you buy this horn new? How old is it?
Mark

The horn was purchased new, spring of 2013.

[E. Green]

"B & S" valves are used not only in their own, but also in Meinl-Weston tubas, both piston and rotary. Later Hirsbrunner tubas also used piston valve manufactured at the "B & S" factory in Markneukirchen. The quality and precision is high, cleanliness is the rule of the day. If the valves remain problematic this is do to improper handing of the instrument or mineral deposits inside the casings and valve guide slots. Most cleaning procedures will not remove such deposits. A brass or bronze wire brush, slightly larger in diameter then the casings and obtainable at tool or auto parts stores will remove such deposits. Run such a brush through the casing a few times: it will be clean and bright. Wipe the casing with a cloth, oil the valve and it should work.

Gene

[tclements]

I just installed a set of MAW valves. They need time to seat and in the break-in period, need a LOT of cleaning, swabbing out of the valve casings and re-oiling. Try that first.

[Q-Sousa]

Did you ever figure this out? I have a new MRP piston C tuba and have the same valve issues.

[tclements]

Call me. We'll talk offline.

[Lee Stofer]

I think I aged about 5 years in the past 10 minutes, reading through this thread and seeing all of the well-intentioned suggestions
posted here. I first encountered this problem over 20 years ago, when a Navy Bandsman brought me a used 2165. He bought it
cheap, knowing that it had problems, then brought it to me to fix them (oh, great. . . .) After going through all of the usual suspects -
cleanliness, regulation, valve guides, doing all the normal things and still coming up with a tuba where neither the valves nor
slides worked well, in quiet desperation I pulled out my torch, and started carefully going over braces and joints, all over the
instrument, in a specific progression. The instrument soon started popping and creaking like a Halloween spook house, and when
it all stopped, I let it cool for several minutes, then play-tested it. The tuba was trouble-free. Either the tuba had suffered a fall/
hit, which threw everything out of alignment, or it may have had problems from the factory.

Having assembled a number of tubas now, I know how difficult it can be to get everything just right, the first time, and I would
not criticize the assemblers on the line. As people have continued to search for the lowest price while wanting quality, something
has to give, and M-W/B&S has worked hard to stay in business despite the onslaught of Asian instruments. 5/4 and 6/4 tubas are
actually more fragile than many smaller tubas, so they must be handled as such. I have noted that much smaller HOJO Meinl-Westons
rarely have any valve problems at all, but are really very sweet in operation, so I think build quality is not so much the problem as
damage in transit and use. There have been some valve problems, but they can be fixed. I consider MAW pistons as the gold standard
of quality, which is why my tubas come equipped new with MAW pistons and a MAW 5th rotor. If your tuba has been properly fitted with
MAW pistons and they are having trouble, the problem is very likely tension on the valve casings caused by distortion within the instrument.

And, I would strongly suggest not trying to take a torch to your instrument at home. Without a lot of experience, you are likely to burn lacquer,
weaken joints, and make the situation worse and more expensive to repair. Yanking and twisting on parts is not suggested, either. I do not
try to do front-end aligments on my car, or do electrical work past changing a light bulb on the car, because I do not have the proper tools,
know-how and experience. My auto mechanic is thankful for that.