Serious question: Why C tuba over Bb?

[bort]

PBK, 195P

I remembered the Gronitz (York-ish) but forgot that MW slapped some piston valves on the Fafner (not York-ish). I suspect that neither is particularly mainstream (especially not the Gronitz!).

[tubajon]

Wow. Thanks for all the feedback. Another question: would a player be turned down if taking a European audition on American equipment? Even if they were the most qualified?

[bort]

Wow. Thanks for all the feedback. Another question: would a player be turned down if taking a European audition on American equipment? Even if they were the most qualified?

Hard to say. I attended a masterclass in NY a few years ago held by Alexander von Puttkamer(sp?), of the Berlin Philharmonic. He was talking about a few programs in Germany, and he specifically said that if any of the players in the class wanted to apply, they would be required to play BBb tuba.

In fact, he made a pretty big deal out of BBb vs. CC, and frequently mentioned how he didn't know how to teach playing CC tuba.

[windshieldbug]

most qualified?

Considering how many tubas would audition for any open job, how could you determine the MOST qualified?...

[eupher61]

One silly thing observed with CC players in band:

-- Director "tunes the band" to a Bb.
-- This note is played with 1st valve on a CC tuba.
-- That note sounds good to the player, so everything is "good to go".
:

Yet in an orchestra, CC tubas tune to 1-2 A. Everything sounds good to the player, so everything is "good to go".

Trombones in an orchestra tune to 2nd position A. Everything sounds good....etc A clarinets are probably the only wind instrument that make any sense in orchestra tuning.

And, the business about keys of instrument relating to the "most predominant key" of a style. Horse Hockey. I play trad jazz on a BBb, or an Eb, or an F. If I had a CC I'd use it from time to time, I certainly did for a number of years. It depends on the job and how I feel. Michael Glenn stole my saying--'There are no hard keys, just unfamiliar ones".

There is no right or wrong, even in Germany. Some conductors think they know what is best, and they want ONLY that, and anything else is WRONG. Bull Buttons. Even Mahler and Wagner left a lot of ambiguity. But to keep the gig, you gotta do what those jerks say.

Ever realize that The Ride was premiered on a BBb Helicon????

[eupher61]

I believe most tubas should be built with their open overtones being the B♮ overtone series.

- B♮ major (five sharps) and C♭ major (seven flats) is as close as one can come to a "hinge-point" and/or a "meeting point" between music with sharps and music with flats...

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you...The blokeophone. Pitched in either bass or contrabass Gb, it's the ideal instrument for playing in any key. And being an octave apart, there's NO LEARNING CURVE! And there's more....A Gb HELICON! And a Gb Sousaphone! These all can be yours IF THE FINGERS ARE RIGHT!

tell 'em what they won, Johnny...

[Untersatz]

I like CC tuba because the open scale is based on having no sharps and no flats. Playing BBb tuba is like counting starting at -1, instead of counting starting at 0.

OK Brett, you walked right into this one..........

So where does that leave you when playing a Bb scale on a CC tuba???

Sounds like starting at -1 to me!

[Untersatz]

so-as they can easily be played in-tune.

Care to elaborate on this, Joe?

Last I heard, most CC tubas require quite a bit of slide pulling to be "easily be played in-tune"

[Untersatz]

Cc tubas do speak quicker and play a little 'cleaner'

#1 Snobbish CC Bonehead quote of the day..........

those dirty BBbs........

[bort]

Cc tubas do speak quicker and play a little 'cleaner'

#1 Snobbish CC Bonehead quote of the day..........

those dirty BBbs........

Slow, too...

[Donn]

A clarinets are probably the only wind instrument that make any sense in orchestra tuning.

I believe bloke already got to this one, but just to energetically beat the hopefully dead horse, the A clarinet is certainly not the wind instrument that makes sense. An A tuning note is fine for A clarinet - and Bb clarinet - as it lies in the middle of the lower register of those instruments. But I imagine that a good clarinetist wouldn't have any problem at all tuning to whatever note. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'd think we could say the same about CC tuba players.

[Untersatz]

OK, now I've heard EVERYTHING!

my instructor thinks that I should be playing a CC tuba instead of BBb because it works better for cold entrances in orchestral works.

[eupher61]

A clarinet....play a C, it sounds an A.

[Donn]

A clarinet....play a C, it sounds an A.

Not sure why that comes up, but I'll bite (hope it wasn't some joke I missed!) Please define "play a C". Is this about fingering? Different notes, depending on the register, so if it's an A clarinet because of this, it's also D clarinet. Is it about transposed notation? I think anyone who has an A clarinet has probably played it with both Bb and A notation, and conversely any A part has probably been played on Bb clarinet - the notation isn't inherent to the instrument. And the key (A or Bb) isn't as clearly inherent in the instrument, as it is a tuba for example which has a natural "open" pitch series. Bassoon isn't all that different from the rest of its woodwind relatives, and it isn't "in C" any more than an A clarinet, but you're taught to play concert pitch music and I bet 9 out of 10 players couldn't tell you what key it's built in, as that's completely irrelevant.

[pgym]

Hard to say. I attended a masterclass in NY a few years ago held by Alexander von Puttkamer(sp?), of the Berlin Philharmonic. He was talking about a few programs in Germany, and he specifically said that if any of the players in the class wanted to apply, they would be required to play BBb tuba.

In fact, he made a pretty big deal out of BBb vs. CC, and frequently mentioned how he didn't know how to teach playing CC tuba.

Somewhere on Youtube there's a video of Herr von Puttkamer in which he says you can audition on a CC, but if you win you'll be required to play a BBb.

That accords with has been reported elsewhere, including here.

[MikeMason]

Regarding tuning:the only time I move my main slide is when playing with an out of tune church organ or under mute. Tuning a is just a tradition for most brass players.strings seem to need it the most. My observations.

[Three Valves]

Cc tubas do speak quicker and play a little 'cleaner'

#1 Snobbish CC Bonehead quote of the day..........

those dirty BBbs........

Then, when you call them on being snobs, they compound their condescension and accuse you of having an inferiority complex.

Rise up, BBs!!

Rise up!!

[Three Valves]

No BBb;

NO PEACE!!

[tbn.al]

Can't we all just get along? We should unite against our common foe....those euphonium players. They ruined our Brotherhood Association.

Don't forget us slide-slingers. We want our just due.

[happyroman]

I think it is a combination of "supply and demand" and a "self fulfilling prophesy."

Many orchestral tuba players in the US have used CC tubas for as long as I can remember. Students who pursue that career path choose to emulate the musicians that have been successful, and so they also play CC tubas. Manufacturers sense the increased demand, and focus more on designing and manufacturing CC tubas over BBb tubas.

Not that ANY of this makes sense from a musical standpoint. Didn't Gene Pokorny and Tony Kniffen do a demonstration at the 2014 ITEA where they played excerpts back and forth alternating between CC and BBb? My understanding was that the audience could tell little, if any, difference in the sounds created, regardless of the key of the tuba being played.