Prototype tubas..

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:49 pm

tuba4sissies wrote:... is it a good idea to bring my private lessons teacher if possible?

Absolutely, if he plays CC. If not, you might ask him to recommend a CC player you could take with you. Be sure to pay whomever goes with you his usual lesson rate for time he spends helping you, though. Even if that comes to $100 (don't know just how far you'll need to drive) it's a bargain to get the advice of an expert.

This may not apply to your situation -- it would be rude to ask -- so ignore it if it doesn't. For a lot of folks, whipping out the checkbook and writing a check for $3500 just isn't possible. You want to be sure you are sensitive to your parent's financial situation. It may be that you will need to work and save the money yourself, and buy one when you have the dough. As has been discussed, this can be done in a series of step-ups, where you earn a couple thousand and buy a used BBb, then a couple thousand more and trade up to a better horn, then (if need be) a couple thousand more and trade up to an even better one. Perhaps one of those trade-ups will also be a change to CC, perhaps not; we've batted that ball around so many times the cover's worn off. But it IS possible to buy your own tuba. I bought a Miraphone CC during my Freshman year of college, with money I earned myself; many others have also done so. But if Mom & Dad have the dough, and want to give you the horn, that's great; just be sure you show your appreciation by thanking them and taking great care of the horn. 'Nuff said.
_________________________
Joe Baker, who observes that, while this may be a bargain for a 5xJ, there are always good CC instruments available in gently used condition in the same price range.

THE TUBA · Post by **THE TUBA** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:04 pm

T4S,
When you go to try out the prototype tuba, spend as much time as you can trying it out. Don't leave the room until you have explored the tuba fully. It would be smart to make a checklist of things to do while you and your CC tuba player are trying out the prototype. Bring the tuba you play on. Play as high as you can and as low as you can, and make note if your range is increased using this horn. Bring a tuner, of course, along with a recorder, metronome, music you have been working on, etc. Bring all of your mouthpices, and possibly try out one or two new ones at the place of purchase. Take notes about the pros and cons of the tuba. Try out other CC Tubas, to see how this one compares to others. If possible, sleep on it, and see what you think the next day. Do not rush into buying this tuba unless it is outstanding.

P.S.
If your parents are unsure about buying you this tuba, and you have decided that this is tuba you want, try the old car/tuba gig. Tell your parents that instead of buying you a car, they should buy you a tuba. A tuba is definitly more useful than a car, and you can manage better in a beat up '67 ford pick-up and a nice CC tuba, than a new car and a beat up '67 BBb Yamaha.

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:24 pm

I know this tuba. I don't remember it being a prototype but was a production instrument, though early in the run for sure. It was intended as a demo but went to the clinician instead.

The finish is burnished lacquer and it is the only one I've ever seen. The factory rep told the former clinician that they would never offer this finish again, it required far too much labor.

The instrument plays very well. It was used in a variety of demanding professional venues including session work, regional orchestras, recitals and touring broadway shows.

You have to ask yourself if you like the sound and response of this tuba when you play it. At this price it is a steal but if you don't like the sound or the type of response you just won't like the horn, regardless of price.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:29 pm

THE TUBA wrote:If your parents are unsure about buying you this tuba, and you have decided that this is tuba you want, try the old car/tuba gig. Tell your parents that instead of buying you a car, they should buy you a tuba.

This cracks me up, and probably a lot of the other older people on the list. My parents would no more have bought me a car than sent me to the moon....there were buses, bicycles, and feet for getting places, and no way would I have been allowed a car even if I bought it myself, don't even mention buying one for me!
MA, who thinks times actually have changed, because my parents DID buy me a really nice violin

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:36 pm

Old Indian Saying:

Never buy anything that the owner or agent says "Has To Go NOW".

Usually ends up being the wrong choice.

horto008 · Post by **horto008** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:45 pm

As some of the other posters have said, make sure to check the intonation. I have a prototype PT6 which I bought for a WONDERFUL price (<5000USD) but it has several intonation quirks which took a while to work around effectively.

Also, as best you can make sure that parts are interchangeable with the finalized models. I had an issue with this when I injured some linkage and had to have a part fabricated at the repair shop -- $$.

g'luck

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:08 pm

In other words, do the same things you should do for ANY tuba you're considering buying!...

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:39 pm

barry guerrero wrote:And isn't CJ Krause, Charlie Krause of Willie Mays fame (or Bays - or whatever that tuba place in Dallas was called)?

Barry

That's Charlie; and it's "Crook Mays" -- I mean "Brook Mays" (my problem is with the company, not Charlie. I don't really know him, but he seems okay to me).

tubarepair · Post by **tubarepair** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:39 pm

Speaking of bad prototypes...Remember the ill-fated Besson 985 F tuba - a cut-down of a 983 Eb?

983 = great horn with good intonation characteristics
985 = not so much. Some ended up on eBay

CJ Krause · Post by **CJ Krause** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:43 pm

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:14 am

Just a word of caution...

Don't get all worked up this tuba just because it is for sale in your area. I'm in the DFW area myself and call tell you that there are lots of tubas coming and going around here all the time. Make sure you try all the tubas you can before you settle on one. I don't think flying through this process at Mach 3 just because other people are interested in the tuba and could buy it out from under you is a good idea...take your time and really explore your options.

Get to TMEA (ie, All State Convention) or one of the retailers for a day or two and try horns to your heart's content. I'd highly, highly, highly recommend TMEA to someone like yourself that really seems to have little tuba experience outside of the school realm. It's in the middle of February every year and there are lots and lots and lots of tubas there to try...Hirsbrunner to Yamaha to Conn to Willson to Gronitz to Meinl Weston to Jupiter. If you can wait that long, I think you'd be well served by making the trip...it'd give you longer to save your money too!

That said, trying the Conn isn't going to hurt anything...and heck, if you fall in love with it, buy it...but I know that I wouldn't be satisfied unless I knew I had explored all of my options.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:14 am

In defense of Charlie (like he really needs me to defend him

) he is NOT a high pressure guy. When you get a little older and actually have to go out and buy things for yourself you will encounter high pressure salespeople - he is not one. However, if the owner is really willing to let the horn go so cheap, the owner must really need the money right now. So, Charlie is just trying to satisfy the owner and make sure the horn sells soon, not several months from now - he is doing his job.

FWIW, If Charlie seems a little short with you, it may be due to your dubious reputation online. Although only human, he is normally very personable to deal with. Think about it: If you offend hundreds of people in a close-knit community on a daily basis, don't expect one of them to all of a sudden bend over backwards for you the first time their phone rings and you are on the other end of the line.

P.S. If you were ever buying a horn I was selling I would probably add a "nuisance" surcharge.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:58 pm

tuba4sissies wrote:Lol. I'm saying though, at first he was kind of pushy. He's a good guy, I just felt rushed.

You are rushing yourself, and that's obvious from reviewing this thread. There's a big difference between rushing and moving quickly. When I bought my Holton, I learned of its existence on a Wednesday and I wrote the check on Friday. That's moving quickly. But I had spent a lot of time play-testing similar large tubas and talking about it with better players, and so had done my homework on what sort of instrument I was looking for. That's how you avoid rushing.

In my opinion, you should stop asking for advice and start taking it. There's no way in the world you should be making this decision without a teacher's guidance. Have you had that lesson with Ed Jones yet? Has he play-tested the instrument?

And, finally, I offer this advice to you and to all others on Tubenet: Do not conduct your transactions in public, especially not in real time. You make yourself vulnerable to 1.) offending the seller, 2.) alerting a competitor of the availability of the tuba, 3.) taking away your options to back out without doing so publicly, and 4.) wasting your time with advice about an instrument nobody else has played, for use by a person nobody else has heard.

Rick "who knows buck fever when he sees it" Denney

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:08 pm

Rick Denney wrote: You are rushing yourself, and that's obvious from reviewing this thread.

Too late...he already bought it from what I can tell from his other posts...

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:16 pm

Tom wrote:Too late...he already bought it from what I can tell from his other posts...

That's what I get for not checking in much during last week's intense business travel. And I'm just skimming topics today--to behind to read everything.

Rick "thinking the advice may suit the next guy" Denney

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:03 pm

Here's a summary of what happened...all in about two days...even those of us that do drop in on the board on a daily basis might have missed it...

The tuba showed up for sale.
This thread got started the same day (I beleive)
He decided he wanted to buy a tuba
He decided he wanted to by that tuba and no amount of advice was going to talk him out of it
He bought it the next day
He hasn't spent much time on the board lately...

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:02 am

bloke wrote:
He decided he wanted to by that tuba and no amount of advice was going to talk him out of it

I might (very mildly) object to this representation. I really don't recall too many trying to talk him out of it, and - at that price - anyone advising anyone else not to move on this tuba would not have been offering the best advice.

Agreed...

I suppose it was more a case of this buyer rejecting advice to explore his options and do some homework which resulted in him buying the first thing that came along, which (IMHO) just happened to be that Conn @ ~$3500. Although everyone likes a good deal, I believe it was quite coincidental in this case...he had his mind made up and he was going to buy it come hell or high water.

CJ Krause · Post by **CJ Krause** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:32 am