How did the brass repairman do it?

[Dan Schultz]

.... The most valuable lessons are the mistakes we make on the job....

Ain't THAT the truth!! No flames or disputes from Southern Indiana!

[windshieldbug]

[/b]

Nice ash trays!

SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Tobacco Smoke Increases The Risk Of Lung Cancer And Heart Disease, Even In Nonsmokers.

[windshieldbug]

Ashtrays! I thought they were spittoons! Silly me...

Just because conductors spit at them doesn't mean you should encourage them...

[sungfw]

Ashtrays! I thought they were spittoons! Silly me...

You're both wrong.

Take another look at the one in his hand. It's obvious he's making wizard caps to help focus the cosmic forces required to work his magic.

[greatk82]

Ashtrays! I thought they were spittoons! Silly me...

You're both wrong.

Take another look at the one in his hand. It's obvious he's making wizard caps to help focus the cosmic forces required to work his magic.

Don't you mean his magic?

[MileMarkerZero]

How did the repairman do it?

I'm not sure, but I'll bet it involved a full moon and a goat...

[Kenton]

You know, it always bothered me that some jobs have a college degree as a pre-requisite. It always seemed to me that if the education was really valuable, it would show up in job performance. (I have a couple degrees, so no that isn't my issue.)

And, so the reverse also seems to make sense. What difference does it make where a person's skills come from, as long as they perform.

It seems to me that a repair person could even choose to excel in only a portion of the industry, i.e. brass only or even trombones slides only. And, their path to excellence may be markedly difference than the next guy. Formal education would be only one possible path.

[iiipopes]

Gentleman,from my german point of view,my own experience and what I was told once during my apprenticeship some decades ago there´s one main headline standing high above everything:

Use good tools,get skilled ,switch on your brain and always try to steal with your eyes,nobody can take somebody away from getting ideas with his eyes,right?

The other way round,everytime you get to a workshop,put your hands in the pockets,start whistling and look around what´s going on.

Any comments here?

Regards,

Kurt

And questions, always to be asking questions, and listening to the answers. This goes both ways to make sure the repairs are exactly what the customer needs or desires. Bloke, among others, does this last point very well.

[sungfw]

You know, it always bothered me that some jobs have a college degree as a pre-requisite. It always seemed to me that if the education was really valuable, it would show up in job performance. (I have a couple degrees, so no that isn't my issue.)

And, so the reverse also seems to make sense. What difference does it make where a person's skills come from, as long as they perform.

I don't know … my neighbor's a vet and he's neutered thousands of dogs and cats over the years, but if'n I ever decide to get one of them there ... whachamacallits ... vas- something or other… vas- ... vas- ... vas- ectomies, yeah, that's it, vas-ectomies: if'n I ever decide to get one of them there vasectomies, I ain't lettin' him get within a thousand miles of me!!!!

[iiipopes]

Yeah, and so? Apples and oranges. I let my local tech take care of some things, and I sent out to Dan Schultz for other issues with my 186, and if I need something else on one of my other horns, one of the other esteemed members of the forum, or another tech with the focus on what I may need at the time, will be getting my call.

Each person who endeavors the field will develop a particular expertise, and the really great ones will not only develop their expertise, but defer to other equally qualified superlative persons for issues outside their expertise.

Non-issue.

[sungfw]

Yeah, and so? Apples and oranges. I let my local tech take care of some things, and I sent out to Dan Schultz for other issues with my 186, and if I need something else on one of my other horns, one of the other esteemed members of the forum, or another tech with the focus on what I may need at the time, will be getting my call.

Each person who endeavors the field will develop a particular expertise, and the really great ones will not only develop their expertise, but defer to other equally qualified superlative persons for issues outside their expertise.

Non-issue.

Obviously, SOMEONE completely missed the point.

[Dan Schultz]

Yes, Bloke.... tube expanders are viable tools to have around. They can do a nice job if you are just careful how you use them.

Maybe it would be fun to distort this thread a bit (as if it isn't already!) by asking any and all repair guys on the forum give us a account of that really crappy job they did in an effort to just 'get it playing and out the door'. C'mon... regardless of what a fantastic craftsman you are... you know you've done it. 'Fes up.

[Kenton]

Maybe it would be fun to distort this thread a bit (as if it isn't already!) by asking any and all repair guys on the forum give us a account of that really crappy job they did in an effort to just 'get it playing and out the door'. C'mon... regardless of what a fantastic craftsman you are... you know you've done it. 'Fes up.

I shouldn't be tempted by this challenge, but shouldn't the repair match the value of the instrument? i.e. does it make any sense to make a 24 carat fix of a tin horn?

Sometimes, 'out the door' fixes are exactly what is needed to keep a low level instrument in the game.

[windshieldbug]

Sometimes, 'out the door' fixes are exactly what is needed to keep a low level instrument in the game.

Amen

[Rick Denney]

I shouldn't be tempted by this challenge, but shouldn't the repair match the value of the instrument? i.e. does it make any sense to make a 24 carat fix of a tin horn?

Naw. The repair should match the budget and intentions of the owner. No justification is required for the owner wanting to gild the lily. Some of those tin horns play pretty well, but even if they didn't, it's still the owner's money to do with as he pleases.

We've seen pictures of beautiful work on Tubenet that cost considerably more than the instrument is worth on the market. The only justification required is that the owner had the money and wanted it done.

Not for me, though. The Holton now has perfect valves, nearly perfect slides, and no dents. And the repairs are finished to make the horn look old but unfooled-around-with. None of that thin brass had holes sanded or buffed in it, and I didn't worry about hammer marks and scratches. That fits my style and my budget.

Rick "who thinks the value only matters if the instrument is for sale" Denney

[TheBerlinerTuba]

I would like to second what Dan Oberloh has written. Like many other professions, achieving a high level at wind instrument repair requires many many years of work experience, the right tools, and if you are lucky enough, a very experienced master to guide you. Even then, it is no guarantee. To simply take a repair course, buy the tools and apprentice for a few years, is not even close if you want to achieve results like Dan's. I'm sorry to say this, but none of the current "repair schools" will teach you what you need. They do give you access to many of the tools, but often you will learn to use them improperly. Apologies if this offends anyone, but i doubt if you will be as pissed off as i was to have several months of my time and money wasted when i could have been learning from someone who knew what he/she was doing.
Having watched Dan at his shop, i think his approach to repair is to invest in the right tools(and a lot of them!), a good understanding of each tool's potential, and a very logical and patient mind. As he said earlier, it's not rocket science, but rather a lot of (un)common sense.
Perhaps some of you think that Dan goes overboard with his work, that it doesnt always need such close attention to detail. However, I've often felt that doing a half-assed repair even on a cheap instrument just shows that you aren't willing (or have the knowledge) to take the time to do it right, and that goes for any profession.
I'm not trying to turn anyone off from pursuing this field, but rather to warn those with interest to take it very seriously. I know instrument repair isn't life and death, but after watching a "famous" repair tech make a stretched-to-hell mess of a minor bell dent on my then beautiful new expensive tuba, I felt terrible. So please, if you want to go into this profession, do it right. Seek out the best people, learn as much as possible, and work your butt off.
Cheers!
2165

[ASTuba]

I would like to second what Dan Oberloh has written. Like many other professions, achieving a high level at wind instrument repair requires many many years of work experience, the right tools, and if you are lucky enough, a very experienced master to guide you. Even then, it is no guarantee. To simply take a repair course, buy the tools and apprentice for a few years, is not even close if you want to achieve results like Dan's. I'm sorry to say this, but none of the current "repair schools" will teach you what you need. They do give you access to many of the tools, but often you will learn to use them improperly. Apologies if this offends anyone, but i doubt if you will be as pissed off as i was to have several months of my time and money wasted when i could have been learning from someone who knew what he/she was doing.
Having watched Dan at his shop, i think his approach to repair is to invest in the right tools(and a lot of them!), a good understanding of each tool's potential, and a very logical and patient mind. As he said earlier, it's not rocket science, but rather a lot of (un)common sense.
Perhaps some of you think that Dan goes overboard with his work, that it doesnt always need such close attention to detail. However, I've often felt that doing a half-assed repair even on a cheap instrument just shows that you aren't willing (or have the knowledge) to take the time to do it right, and that goes for any profession.
I'm not trying to turn anyone off from pursuing this field, but rather to warn those with interest to take it very seriously. I know instrument repair isn't life and death, but after watching a "famous" repair tech make a stretched-to-hell mess of a minor bell dent on my then beautiful new expensive tuba, I felt terrible. So please, if you want to go into this profession, do it right. Seek out the best people, learn as much as possible, and work your butt off.
Cheers!
2165

I agree with about 90% of what you said, but to be fair, I don't think that anyone who teaches at a repair school, with maybe one exception, actually thinks you learn enough to repair anything once you get out of school. Most students come out of there thinking in their heads they can do anything, but learn in about 20 minutes at a real job that they don't.

When I went to Renton Tech with Daryl Hickman, he made it very clear to us everyday that we were getting the basic skills in how to fix certain things, but he was never the be-all end-all of repairs. I've learned a lot from talking to others, watching them work, or simply from trying something on a junker in my bin, and then doing it to a customer's instrument only when I feel I can complete the repair properly.

I'm curious as to whom made the bell crease that you had. There are many self-proclaimed "famous" technicians.

[sungfw]

I shouldn't be tempted by this challenge, but shouldn't the repair match the value of the instrument? i.e. does it make any sense to make a 24 carat fix of a tin horn?

The value to whom?

I own two euphs: a Besson Imperial and a King 2268 (non-comp). Even though Besson is a far better horn than the King, and even though these days I play the Besson > 90% of the time, if I could only keep one horn, I'd dump the Besson in a heartbeat and wouldn't give it a second thought because the King was a HS graduation present from my parents. So, because of what the King represents, to me, it has an intangible value that that cannot be measured in terms of dollars and cents (or whatever your local currency happens to be).

[windshieldbug]

So, because of what the King represents, to me, it has an intangible value that that cannot be measured in terms of dollars and cents (or whatever your local currency happens to be).

I think you're proving Kenton's point. The value to you, since you're the person who owns it, not the value to an insurance company. Should you decide that a repair to this horn is worth a ton of local currency, one would also hope that you would communicate so to said repairperson!

[sungfw]

I think you're proving Kenton's point.

Hunh? Proving Rick Denny's point, yes; but phrases like "does it make any sense to make a 24 carat fix of a tin horn," " 'out the door' fixes," and "low level instrument" imply that Kenton was referring to the monetary value of the instrument, so I find it extremely difficult to interpret Kenton's post to mean that a "tin horn" that has intangible, non-monetary value to its owner is worth the repair tech's best energies and efforts.

I shouldn't be tempted by this challenge, but shouldn't the repair match the value of the instrument? i.e. does it make any sense to make a 24 carat fix of a tin horn?

Sometimes, 'out the door' fixes are exactly what is needed to keep a low level instrument in the game.