Drug Dealers and Drug Traffic

[Mark]

However, if MJ were legal, there would be no danger in approaching growing areas, right? Unless you were a thief.

If MJ were legal then they would be growing poppies.

[ThomasDodd]

If MJ were legal then they would be growing poppies.

Is the climate really acceptable for that?

One of the great things about MJ and hemp is it's a weed and will grow almost any where.

[Dylan King]

That's right! It's a weed. A plant. It grows in the ground from seed that was given by the Almighty Eternal Father.

Genesis 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so. 12And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13So the evening and the morning were the third day.

I agree that He doesn't want us to abuse cannabis, but with all of the fantastic uses hemp has to offer, do you really think the Lord didn't want us to use it?

It is Satan who keeps gifts from the Eternal from God's children. Whether it be through human ignorance, government, or anything else, Satan is in charge right now. Thank God his power on this earth will be coming to an end very soon.

[adam0408]

interesting idea mellowsmokeman.....

And yeah I know what youre all thinking, but I am not a pothead. It just bothers me when people make generalizations and use false facts to bolster arguments.

I think the whole reason our country is slowly spiralling down the toilet is not drugs, not crime, not politicians, but our stupid attitudes about life, trying to control others, and capitalism.... and those damn alto clarinets... what are they for anyway?

[Chuck(G)]

That's right! It's a weed. A plant. It grows in the ground from seed that was given by the Almighty Eternal Father

So are the coca plant and psychedellic mushrooms. I fail to grasp your point.

[Dylan King]

So are the coca plant and psychedellic mushrooms. I fail to grasp your point.

Mushrooms are not a seeded plant. Some Bible scholars theorise that the "manna" in Exodus that God's people eat are psychodelic mushrooms. I haven't made up my mind about this one, but it is a possiblility. Cocaine is processed from the plant to become useful as a drug. Yes, one can chew on the leaves and get high, but that doesn't seem to be the way they do it here in America. It probably isn't much more dangerous than chewing tobacco, which is legal in all 50 states.

Cannabis can be used as food, medicine, paper, fuel, fiber, shelter, and the list goes on and on. All in it's natural form! To me it is more likely that the "manna" in the Bible is related to the cannabis plant, but I'll have to dig deeper to find the truth about about that. One does not need a processing plant to get one or more of the many benefits of the cannabis plant. One only needs to pick it from the ground. If marijuana was legal and didn't cost as much as gold, I would be able to grow it in my own garden. Smoking would become a thing of the past. I preffer to eat it over smoking it. I wonder how many carcinogens go into one's system by mixing buds in their food? I have never heard of adverse effects of consuming cannabis orally. It's like cooking with oregano and basil.

Interesting. I don't necessarily agree. But it is interesting...

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:mXDj ... ible&hl=en

More interesting reading here...

http://www.egodeath.com/amanita.htm

[Chuck(G)]

Mushrooms are not a seeded plant. Some Bible scholars theorise that the "manna" in Exodus that God's people eat are psychodelic mushrooms. I haven't made up my mind about this one, but it is a possiblility.

Interesting! Up here in Oregon, during the autumn, mushrooms can indeed spring up overnight. Since the main body of the fungus is far underground, picking the mushrooms doesn't harm it at all.

And there are several Native American tribes who consider the psychoactive ones sacred. (Not to mention the cooks among us who think some edible species are quite divine when prepared properly).

Did you know that a fungus is the largest discovered living organism?

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/fungus1.html

Taxonomists generally classify fungi as plant forms but I suppose that since they reproduce asexually, spores aren't considered to be seeds:

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0839293.html

[Chuck(G)]

yum...YUM !!!

Sorry Joe, I forgot that you folks down there prefer your native meats:

[Philip Jensen]

Taxonomists generally classify fungi as plant forms but I suppose that since they reproduce asexually, spores aren't considered to be seeds:

Noooooooo! Layfolk do this, NOT taxonomists. The faculty down the hall are cringing. People who work with fungi are often part of Botany Depts, this is true, but that doesn't make a fungus a plant. This is partly historical, and also because they do have a lot of biochemical similarities (and the animal folk don't want 'em). Plants have chloroplasts and do photosynthesis, fungi do not.

Fungi do have sex, and they can produce both sexual and asexual spores - definitely not seeds though

The "mushrooms" we eat are basidiocarps filled with asexual basidiospores, unless you are eating truffles or morels, in which case it is an ascus, filled with ascospores.

Philip" too dry around here this year for morels" Jensen

[Joe Baker]

I have always wondered if god (if there is one) is into entrapment...

You're intolerant of my beliefs!! I demand social justice!!





Just kidding....
_______________________
Joe Baker, who doesn't expect everyone to share his values or be sensitive to his feelings.

[Chuck(G)]

Those crazy Canadians are at it again:

http://www.amigula.com/

[funkcicle]

Those crazy Canadians are at it again:

http://www.amigula.com/

Due to legal "technicalities", even recreational pot is currently legal(to an extent) in both Ontario and P.E.I. (unless something has changed since last November). The Federal government allows marijuana for medical purposes, but has not allowed for any legal means of obtaining it. The Ontario supreme court(for you americans, understand that a provincial govevrnment has a lot more power than the state governments do in the u.s.) sometime back gave the Federal government an ultimatum to the effect of "provide a legal means for legit users to obtain this drug, or the federal laws making their only means of obtaining it illegal will be struck down in Ontario"... the Federal government drafted a plan for such, but as it had not been enacted one year after the ultimatum the Ontario court stuck to it's word. Following suit, a judge in P.E.I. hearing a pot related case decided to follow the precedent of what was happening in Ontario, and ruled similarly.

This is nothing new in eastern Canada... about 2 years ago the Ontario Provincial Police in the GTA area announced that they would no longer make arrests for marijuana posession under 30 grams because the courts no longer prosecute them. Since that time a "ticket" system was put into place, where posession of 10-30 grams of marijuana will get you a fine in the neighbourhood of $100-$250, like a speeding ticket. Essentially, they kept it illegal, but decriminalised it. Posession of larger quantities and trafficking still cary hefty punishments, and the legal system isn't bogged down with college kids and glaucoma sufferers.

This is what a lot of people are fighting for(not blanket legalisation of all drugs), and I think if we look at it objectively, those of us on both sides of the debate can see the merit in this direction of legislation.

[Chuck(G)]

Noooooooo! Layfolk do this, NOT taxonomists. The faculty down the hall are cringing. People who work with fungi are often part of Botany Depts, this is true, but that doesn't make a fungus a plant. This is partly historical, and also because they do have a lot of biochemical similarities (and the animal folk don't want 'em). Plants have chloroplasts and do photosynthesis, fungi do not.

In the broad taxonomy of "animal, mineral or vegetable"; I'd put fungi down as "vegetable".

But even the dictionary-makers have problems.

From the plant dictionary at http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dict ... 10851.html under "Fungus"

They are not considered to be plants for three main reasons: they have no leaves or roots; they contain no chlorophyll (green colouring) and are therefore unable to make their own food by photosynthesis; and they reproduce by spores

Okay, no leaves or roots is a disqualifier. How about an alga? From: http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dict ... 10671.html under "Alga":

Highly varied group of plants, ranging from single-celled forms to large and complex seaweeds. They live in both fresh and salt water, and in damp soil. Algae do not have true roots, stems, or leaves.

Algae were formerly included within the division Thallophyta, together with fungi and bacteria. Their classification changed with increased awareness of the important differences existing between the algae and Thallophyta, and also between the groups of algae themselves; many botanists now place each algal group in a separate class of its own.

Okay, an alga is a plant, but doesn't have roots or leaves....

Gotcha!

[Mark]

In the broad taxonomy of "animal, mineral or vegetable"...

But even the dictionary-makers have problems.

I'm prestty sure that fungi and algae are classified into in their own separate kingdoms. Not plan or animal. (Minerals are not an organism.)

[Mark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah; but what distinguishes a baritone from a euphonium, huh?

A euphonium has no Chlorophyll.

[Joe Baker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah; but what distinguishes a baritone from a euphonium, huh?

A euphonium has no Chlorophyll.

Dunno, I've seen some with green stuff growin' in em...
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who once found a tree growing in the backseat floorboards of his POS Renault Alliance

[Chuck(G)]

In the broad taxonomy of "animal, mineral or vegetable"...

But even the dictionary-makers have problems.

I'm prestty sure that fungi and algae are classified into in their own separate kingdoms. Not plan or animal. (Minerals are not an organism.)

Gosh, that'll really make playing "20 Questions" hard!

[Joe Baker]

Wait a minute... are you saying those guys are alive???
_____________________________________
Joe Baker, whose HS botany textbooks did say that Bushes are vegetables....

[adam0408]

Adam,

I really don't have a religious or political bent regarding dope, but since you bring it up...

Capitalism=bad, socialism/communism=good? Are you serious? Are you one of those lefty loonies that can't stand America? Surely not....? The cpatialistic USA isn't perfect, but it's a lot better when it comes to respect for the rights and freedoms of its citizens than socialist/communist govts. If you work hard enough, you can realize your dreams. No one, including the govt., is going to just give it to you. If you have the best product/do the best work, you are rewarded. There are also no guarantees. Guarantees aren't fair to those who bust their asses to succeed. Kinda like those college entrance exams that certain folks get extra points for ethnicity instead of EFFORT. What incentive is there for some one to do well? (That's another thread.) The free market is a wonderful thing if left alone.

If you want to give up more of your rights and freedoms, conceding them to the govt. for the better of all people, don't expect the rest of us to go along quietly as you try to make that happen here in the USA. That line of thinking is best suited to life in Canada or Europe. Try Africa or Asia. OR wait another 30 years, and the idiot politicians and the out-of-touch left will have driven us right into a Marxist Utopia. Oh yeah, I forgot - that Utopia won't happen. Already been tried elsewhere and failed, unless you call the Soviet Union, the Eastern Block, China, N. Korea, and Cuba success stories. Socialism is not doing so hot in Europe either - seen Germany's unemployment rate? Sure is funny how all the socialist and communist govts. (and libs) believe in the govt. taking care of everyone, but not everyone gets "taken care of". They don't here either, but our success, and our freedom to succeed (free from govts' "help"), allows us to have the capital to be the most philanthropic country, individually and collectively, in the world. We do more to help the rest of the world (and our own) than everyone else combined. Could we do more? Or should I say, "Could the people who give (conservative folk) do more?". How about all the whiners stop bitching and start giving. Not to Greenpeace and Peta, but to orgnizations that actually help people. Just because we have hungry and homeless (most who are drunks, dopers, mentally ill, or have chosen to be there), doesn't mean we are a bad people or a bad country or that our capitalist system is bad.

The socialization of America has been the trend for 40 years. Thanks, liberals for an excellent snow job. Shame on the people for falling for the bullshit. Things seem to be changing, hence the whining and tirades from the left (seen Ted Kennedy lately?) Try this, Adam: Travel to some other places around the world, and then come back and tell me about how little freedom we have here. BTW, freedom does not mean entitlements, freebies, equal outcome from unequal input, or the govt. being everything to everyone. It also doesn't include behavior that causes harm directly or inadvertantly to others (drug use) . Use your frequent flyer miles and let me know...

Doc (not meaning to offend, just not understanding illogic)

Wow, okay, how is this for not understanding illogic.....!!!!

First of all, I never said capitalism=bad socialism/communism=good. However, I am of the firm belief that people, in a perfect world, would be better off governing themselves and worrying about only themselves. however, its not a perfect world and we need laws so people dont go around killing themselves and others in stupid ways.

Our capitalist society is flawed. Yes, the american ideal is (and what all the politicians want us to believe is true) that if you work hard enough and deliver a good product, you will succeed. I like that idea. However, What about Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart delivers mostly sub-par goods and services at extrodinarily low prices and squeezes other establishments that do exceedingly good work out of business. Another example: Microsoft. Microsoft is a huge corporation that delivers subpar software to the universe. Think about windows XP. It has been touted as the best operating system microsoft has put out yet. However, it was shaky at best when it came out: vulnerable to hackers, finniky at times, etc. It has taken approximately 4 years to get the bugs worked out and deliver, in my opinion, a more saleable and stable product. (still inferior to a popular open-source os) These are the giants that capitalist society has offered us. It seems that the American real (instead of the ideal) is now: offer a crappy, cheap product in huge volumes and make it readily available, and you will become hugely rich beyond your wildest dreams. Oh, and no one will be able to compete with you. In todays society, we no longer get equal outcome with equal input. Maybe 40 years ago, but not today.

THERE SHOULD BE GUARANTEES!!! guarantees for people who bust their asses. Guarantees that they will have healthcare and a hot meal regardless. However, there are no guarantees. Even if you "bust your ***" as you say to provide a quality product, you can still fail (and probably will) becuase of the above mentioned corporations and ones like them.

I realize that we are more "free " than many countries out there. And stop blaming liberals for all the evils you see in the world. This is one of the thigns I hate MOST about the two party system. People don't want their own beloved political party to be responsible for anything, so they blame the other guys and shake their fists in angry immature ways.

Heck, lets extend things a little. Americans, as a general rule (current company excluded of course), dont want to be responsible for any of their own actions either. Thats why you see some IDIOT who spills hot coffee in their own lap suing the place that sold them a beverage that was intended to be really hot in the first place. This is what I was referring to when I said "stupid attitudes about things"

More on the not blaming liberals thing.... I hate both liberals and conservatives. Politicians cannot be trusted to stick to anything. Once they are in office, they do what they want regardless of party lines. Let's talk about our current president. HE is a conservative, but has been doing some very fishy things. HE claims to be for the little guy, but he lots of important ties to huge corporations. Talk about giving up rights and freedoms to the government: While Bush (remember, hes a what? oh yeah, conservative) has been in office we have lost many freedoms. REMEMBER THE PATRIOT ACTS?? All this from a man that claims to be a person for the people.
Conservatives=smaller government and less spending? Remember, Bush inherited an economy in the black and ran it into the ground in less than two years. Everyone forgets the pre-9/11 world when Bush was regarded as an idiot by 60% of the population. Now we are stuck with this floundering economy and everyone loves him. This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I have to stop.

Sorry about the lengthy post, but I just had to make myself clear because I was being misrepresented. And Doc, I am not trying to attack you.... I enjoy a healthy debate.

[windshieldbug]

Adam,

I really don't have a religious or political bent regarding dope, but since you bring it up...

Capitalism=bad, socialism/communism=good? Are you serious? Are you one of those lefty loonies that can't stand America? Surely not....? The cpatialistic USA isn't perfect, but it's a lot better when it comes to respect for the rights and freedoms of its citizens than socialist/communist govts. If you work hard enough, you can realize your dreams. No one, including the govt., is going to just give it to you. If you have the best product/do the best work, you are rewarded. There are also no guarantees. Guarantees aren't fair to those who bust their asses to succeed. Kinda like those college entrance exams that certain folks get extra points for ethnicity instead of EFFORT. What incentive is there for some one to do well? (That's another thread.) The free market is a wonderful thing if left alone.

If you want to give up more of your rights and freedoms, conceding them to the govt. for the better of all people, don't expect the rest of us to go along quietly as you try to make that happen here in the USA. That line of thinking is best suited to life in Canada or Europe. Try Africa or Asia. OR wait another 30 years, and the idiot politicians and the out-of-touch left will have driven us right into a Marxist Utopia. Oh yeah, I forgot - that Utopia won't happen. Already been tried elsewhere and failed, unless you call the Soviet Union, the Eastern Block, China, N. Korea, and Cuba success stories. Socialism is not doing so hot in Europe either - seen Germany's unemployment rate? Sure is funny how all the socialist and communist govts. (and libs) believe in the govt. taking care of everyone, but not everyone gets "taken care of". They don't here either, but our success, and our freedom to succeed (free from govts' "help"), allows us to have the capital to be the most philanthropic country, individually and collectively, in the world. We do more to help the rest of the world (and our own) than everyone else combined. Could we do more? Or should I say, "Could the people who give (conservative folk) do more?". How about all the whiners stop bitching and start giving. Not to Greenpeace and Peta, but to orgnizations that actually help people. Just because we have hungry and homeless (most who are drunks, dopers, mentally ill, or have chosen to be there), doesn't mean we are a bad people or a bad country or that our capitalist system is bad.

The socialization of America has been the trend for 40 years. Thanks, liberals for an excellent snow job. Shame on the people for falling for the bullshit. Things seem to be changing, hence the whining and tirades from the left (seen Ted Kennedy lately?) Try this, Adam: Travel to some other places around the world, and then come back and tell me about how little freedom we have here. BTW, freedom does not mean entitlements, freebies, equal outcome from unequal input, or the govt. being everything to everyone. It also doesn't include behavior that causes harm directly or inadvertantly to others (drug use) . Use your frequent flyer miles and let me know...

Doc (not meaning to offend, just not understanding illogic)

Wow, okay, how is this for not understanding illogic.....!!!!

First of all, I never said capitalism=bad socialism/communism=good. However, I am of the firm belief that people, in a perfect world, would be better off governing themselves and worrying about only themselves. however, its not a perfect world and we need laws so people dont go around killing themselves and others in stupid ways.

Our capitalist society is flawed. Yes, the american ideal is (and what all the politicians want us to believe is true) that if you work hard enough and deliver a good product, you will succeed. I like that idea. However, What about Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart delivers mostly sub-par goods and services at extrodinarily low prices and squeezes other establishments that do exceedingly good work out of business. Another example: Microsoft. Microsoft is a huge corporation that delivers subpar software to the universe. Think about windows XP. It has been touted as the best operating system microsoft has put out yet. However, it was shaky at best when it came out: vulnerable to hackers, finniky at times, etc. It has taken approximately 4 years to get the bugs worked out and deliver, in my opinion, a more saleable and stable product. (still inferior to a popular open-source os) These are the giants that capitalist society has offered us. It seems that the American real (instead of the ideal) is now: offer a crappy, cheap product in huge volumes and make it readily available, and you will become hugely rich beyond your wildest dreams. Oh, and no one will be able to compete with you. In todays society, we no longer get equal outcome with equal input. Maybe 40 years ago, but not today.

THERE SHOULD BE GUARANTEES!!! guarantees for people who bust their asses. Guarantees that they will have healthcare and a hot meal regardless. However, there are no guarantees. Even if you "bust your ***" as you say to provide a quality product, you can still fail (and probably will) becuase of the above mentioned corporations and ones like them.

I realize that we are more "free " than many countries out there. And stop blaming liberals for all the evils you see in the world. This is one of the thigns I hate MOST about the two party system. People don't want their own beloved political party to be responsible for anything, so they blame the other guys and shake their fists in angry immature ways.

Heck, lets extend things a little. Americans, as a general rule (current company excluded of course), dont want to be responsible for any of their own actions either. Thats why you see some IDIOT who spills hot coffee in their own lap suing the place that sold them a beverage that was intended to be really hot in the first place. This is what I was referring to when I said "stupid attitudes about things"

More on the not blaming liberals thing.... I hate both liberals and conservatives. Politicians cannot be trusted to stick to anything. Once they are in office, they do what they want regardless of party lines. Let's talk about our current president. HE is a conservative, but has been doing some very fishy things. HE claims to be for the little guy, but he lots of important ties to huge corporations. Talk about giving up rights and freedoms to the government: While Bush (remember, hes a what? oh yeah, conservative) has been in office we have lost many freedoms. REMEMBER THE PATRIOT ACTS?? All this from a man that claims to be a person for the people.
Conservatives=smaller government and less spending? Remember, Bush inherited an economy in the black and ran it into the ground in less than two years. Everyone forgets the pre-9/11 world when Bush was regarded as an idiot by 60% of the population. Now we are stuck with this floundering economy and everyone loves him. This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I have to stop.

Sorry about the lengthy post, but I just had to make myself clear because I was being misrepresented. And Doc, I am not trying to attack you.... I enjoy a healthy debate.

I have no point. I just wanted to quote that much discourse.