Why don't we use the French C tuba anymore??

[Nick Pierce]

What is a "BAT" ?

BAT=Big *** Tuba! Yippee!!!

[Wyvern]

Here's an interesting question- were these used in wind bands?

I believe like the British F tuba the French small C was just an orchestral tuba.

BBb are used in French bands. The once I have played with a band in France, the bass part was transposed into BBb, although still in bass clef (confusing! )

[eupher61]

it seems to have been used in quintets (Bozza) and solo (look at a Leduc catalog) as well

[DBCooper]

C'mon guys! Why don't we use the French C tuba any more? Music has moved on. Why don't we use the Roman tuba any more!?

[eupher61]

the French C tuba is an instrument pitched a step higher than a euphonium. It was the standard French tuba for many years...I remember a clinic at an TUBA Conference in the 80s (Austin in '86 maybe??) where the clinician, through an interpreter who obviously knew nothing about tubas, was speaking about the then-recent growth of F tuba use in France.
It's been argued that "Bydlo" and many other French orchestral works were written with that instrument in mind. It often had 6, even 7 valves. The classic setup had the 3rd valve lowering the pitch by 2 full steps (same as 2-3 on most instruments).

SAT, MAT...I have no idea where you pulled those up!

[Todd S. Malicoate]

SAT = small-*** tuba?
MAT = medium-*** tuba?

Todd S. "smart-*** tuba (player)" Malicoate

[corbasse]

BBb are used in French bands. The once I have played with a band in France, the bass part was transposed into BBb, although still in bass clef (confusing! )

Eb bass is even more fun! Same notation: bass clef, transposed, so that middle C = 4th harmonic, or sounding 3rd space Eb. Only used in France, Belgium and Holland.

[eupher61]

I have never heard of french tuba with 7 valves, or saw it !

I've seen a picture somewhere, I have no idea where, maybe the Bevan book? But, I stand firm in my resolve that I've seen a picture of a French C tuba with 7 valves. Yes, I do. Totally. Absolutely.

Hey, finish the limerick...
A tuba in C with 6 valves

[Kevin Hendrick]

I have never heard of french tuba with 7 valves, or saw it !

I've seen a picture somewhere, I have no idea where, maybe the Bevan book? But, I stand firm in my resolve that I've seen a picture of a French C tuba with 7 valves. Yes, I do. Totally. Absolutely.

I'm sure you do, and when you post it here -- so we can see it too -- we'll all stand with you!

[Kevin Hendrick]

Why don't we use the Roman tuba any more!?

Cool -- a brass alphorn! (never saw one of those before -- guess I need to get out and do more "Roman around")

[eupher61]

I have never heard of french tuba with 7 valves, or saw it !

I've seen a picture somewhere, I have no idea where, maybe the Bevan book? But, I stand firm in my resolve that I've seen a picture of a French C tuba with 7 valves. Yes, I do. Totally. Absolutely.

I'm sure you do, and when you post it here -- so we can see it too -- we'll all stand with you!

ok...not a picture, and certainly not my original source, but
let me quote from http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/loyaltubist/tubas.html
#

French tuba Similar in appearance and sound to the euphonium. Has 6 or 7 valves. Pitched in C (consequently, the tubing is slighly shorter than the other two instruments). Used as the tuba for symphony orchestras in France from about 1850-1960s. This explains why the "Bydlo" tuba solo in Maurice Ravel's arrangement of Modeste Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition is so high. The tuba range is achieved by use of the 5th, 6th, & 7th valves. French tubists have been professionally using the same tubas as the rest of the world since the late 1960s although students in French conservatories continued using the smaller instruments for a few years after. (This is the only instrument on this lower list which can rightfully be called a tuba)

Interestingly, this is a page by someone named "Loyal Tubist"...hmmmm, I wonder what ever happened to THAT guy??

[Pozzie]

Hi to all,
I'm new in this forum.
If I'm not mistaken, I found a picture of a C French tuba (6 valves).
http://www.tubaexchange.com/historic_co ... s/2508.JPG" target="_blank" target="_blank

Greetings from Italy!

[Wyvern]

Hi to all,
I'm new in this forum.
If I'm not mistaken, I found a picture of a C French tuba (6 valves).
http://www.tubaexchange.com/historic_co ... s/2508.JPG" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Greetings from Italy!

Welcome to the forum Pozzie! Yes, that looks like a French C tuba

[iiipopes]

Yes, indeed. A very fine example of a Couesnon. Yes, this is a picture of the very type of instrument this thread is all about.

[J.c. Sherman]

I've done the Great Gate movement. And it makes a hell of a lot more sense on Euph. The exchanged low (pedal) Bbs between the Tuba and the Bass Bone are almost a written out staggered breathing, and it's like the voicing returns to a sensible harmonization for the rest of the movement. With a behemoth on the tuba, you have all sorts of weird inversions, at least to my ear, and it sounds like a tuba feature. The euph nestles in nicely and makes the parts beautiful and colorful, especially at the end. I hope to do the whole work some day, but this convinced me it's worth a try!

J.c.S.

[imperialbari]

It is next to impossible to add to the combined geniuses of the above posters. Some posts might have gained from the knowledge of documentation of several French tubas in photos and texts. No documentation of a 7 valve French tuba because there never was one in documented orchestral or band usage. Texts show that the 5th, semitone, valve was considered a transposer valve supposed to make fingerings easy in odd keys. This concept of course failed, as the same length of tubing doesn’t provide the same semitone lowering, when the other several valves are added.

From my brass galleries (a list of entry links will be given at the end of the posting):

Thumbnails of a Couesnon French tuba in C with 3+2 pistons:
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group ... rowse/adef

Couesnon 1930 6 valve Monopole C tuba. (458KB). 3 Pics of a 1930 instrument and a page from a1912 catalogue. Silver plated tuba in C with six valves, signed "COUESNON / PARIS / MONOPOLE / CONSERVATOIRES / MADE IN FRANCE" Made c.1930. Height 62.0cm. Bell diameter 26.8cm. The "Monopole" brand is Couesnon's highest quality mark. This instrument was invented during the early years of the 20th century and was used in many orchestras and bands in Paris. (Based on low resolution scans by a third party):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMaste ... 0CTuba.pdf

Thumbnails:
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group ... rowse/d0ab

Thumbnails of a Couesnon Monopole C French tuba 3+3P:
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group ... rowse/3f3b

Thumbnails of a Couesnon French C tuba 3+3 pistons:
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group ... rowse/6027

Thumbnails of a 1930 Couesnon French C tuba 3+3 pistons (different layout):
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group ... rowse/7d3d

Pages illustrating fingerings and scales from a 1913 book on 6 and 5 valve versions of the Courtois French tuba in C. A commented attempt, by YM, to translate the history behind the development of the 6 valve version has been added (1551KB)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMaste ... 1913Bk.pdf

Thumbnail(-s) of a Courtois French C tuba 3+3P:
http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group ... rowse/53ec

You may, depending on your browser, have to enter via these links:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMaste ... hotosXVII/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMasterPublicPhotosV/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMasterPublicPhotosIV/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMaste ... PhotosXVI/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMasterPublicPhotos21/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMaste ... PhotosXIX/

Please save the usual jeremiads, unless you want to fund this:

permanent commercial server space of 3GB or more

the transfer of 5000 entries with around 20.000 single photos and files to the said commercial server

the rewriting of the index, which may be found here:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Yo ... 20formats/

All links are checked and are in good working order.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[J.c. Sherman]

Except you have to join something to have a look

J.c.S.

[windshieldbug]

The exchanged low (pedal) Bbs between the Tuba and the Bass Bone are almost a written out staggered breathing, and it's like the voicing returns to a sensible harmonization for the rest of the movement.

Chain saw vs. cross-cut saw!?

[Wyvern]

I can't see any pics, Yahoo ask for a "Yahoo ID" and a password ?!

I have a Yahoo ID and password, but the system repeatedly asks me to sign up again to view every album. I am afraid I gave up before I ever found the French C photos

A pity, because there does appear to be some good photos in the albums. It is just that Yahoo seems to put a maze around them to deter viewers!