Detroit Symphony Orchestra

[The Jackson]

With no disrespect I feel I should ask this out of curiosity..... One would/could assume that a job of this stature would bring out the best and finest tubists in the country to audition. What will another cattle call do differently? Are there more quail to flush out of the bushes?

This is interesting. What's happened in previous times like this? Did some people not return for the second audition, so the number was cut down? Did other auditioners come out of the woodwork? Was the eventual decision made out of the lack of any other option?

[Tubadork]

.

[CJBlaha]

I know that Chris Blaha is playing 7 weeks or so

I am? 7 weeks?

[Tubadork]

I know that Chris Blaha is playing 7 weeks or so

I am? 7 weeks?

sorry if I'm wrong just what I heard,
Bill

[CC]

Some of the people (but I'm sure not all of them) whom I've heard have been subbing with Detroit lately...

Mike Roylance
Chris Olka
Daryl Johnson
Dave Saltzman
Chris Blaha
Phil Sinder

[Dave Y]

Maybe during the first audition cycle the panel is simply unqualified and/or incapable of making a decision which they can be confident about, and must wait until they have been through the audition cycle two or three times to have gained enough exposure and experience to finally vote with a sense of assurance while filling a position which is not their primary instrument?

I have experienced this type of situation first hand with panels interviewing for scientific and technical positions.

An excellent observation!

[Alex Kidston]

Another factor I think is that the player who has left / retired has been there so long that the other members of the brass section might find it very difficult to approach replacing them immediately. A player's sound and personality become embedded in the ensemble and I would think it takes a while to let this fade...I've seen this pattern in at least two other recent auditions. It has even stretched to the departing player's primary student being awarded the position.

My two cents that used to be a dollar / pound...

[USTuba08]

I'm not sure I believe in this they can't pick a winner sentiment. How many people showed up to audition? Of course, some had no business, others were very serious contenders. Are we to believe that the world class players on the committee can't tell what good tuba playing sounds like? And isn't that what the tenure process is for, to determine if someone will fit in a section? National Symphony and the Philadelphia orchestra didn't seem to have problems filling their spots, and Detroit is surely on that level. I don't know either of the finalists, but are we in the mindset that someone has to play perfectly to win an audition. I'd hate to think that, because nobody is perfect, that's what keeps us going. You can go to concert halls around the country and hear chipped notes, out of tune playing, poor balance, and missed entrances by the world's most respected musicians. That's the thrill of live performance.

[Monstertuba]

Ladies and gentelmen there is no winner because no one was able to excite the committee or the music director enough to warrant placing them in a seat for the next 30 years. It is that simple. It has nothing to do with 'could this person play the job well', of course they could. Anyone who made the semis would fall into that category. But organizations like orchestras must fill positions with absolute trend setters in order to continue their growth and reputation as an outstanding artistic institution. Fellow musicians on a committee want to be thoroughly excited about the person they just hired and the music making that will be brought to their organization because of it. Responses to this situation will be handled and contemplated in a multitude of ways but one thing is for sure; Who ever eventually wins this position will not waste time blaming the committee for their lack of skill and perfectionist attitude but will spend it kicking their own butt to produce an audition that will blow the committee and the music director away.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Note to tuba performance students (undergraduate and graduate) with an eye on winning an orchestra position:

Are you beginning to realize that there is much more to winning a job than just playing the correct notes with perfect rhythm, excellent tempo control, and a great sound?

They don't mention this fact in college...everyone just says you're "good."

[Chris Smith]

Note to tuba performance students (undergraduate and graduate) with an eye on winning an orchestra position:

Are you beginning to realize that there is much more to winning a job than just playing the correct notes with perfect rhythm, excellent tempo control, and a great sound?

They don't mention this fact in college...everyone just says you're "good."

I am reminded of this in every one of my lessons.

[Mark]

- never give anyone in the industry (or in any other industry) any reason to dislike, distrust, or disqualify you based on non-musical issues

This is a lesson learned too late by some.

- stay off of tubenet

This should be a strictly enforced policy of every university tuba studio. At least in regards to posting.

[windshieldbug]

Treat an audition as you would expect any reasonably smart person to treat a job interview for a job you really want to get.

Know the job that you're interviewing for.
Be able to do whatever will be expected.
Show a solid record of previous experience.
Be presentable.
Play well with others.
Expect to have your abilities tested, even if the situations don't make sense.
Understand the philosophy and aims of the organization.

[jtuba]

Has anyone received comments from the orchestra yet?

[Matt G]

Ladies and gentelmen there is no winner because no one was able to excite the committee or the music director enough to warrant placing them in a seat for the next 30 years. It is that simple. It has nothing to do with 'could this person play the job well', of course they could. Anyone who made the semis would fall into that category. But organizations like orchestras must fill positions with absolute trend setters in order to continue their growth and reputation as an outstanding artistic institution. Fellow musicians on a committee want to be thoroughly excited about the person they just hired and the music making that will be brought to their organization because of it. Responses to this situation will be handled and contemplated in a multitude of ways but one thing is for sure; Who ever eventually wins this position will not waste time blaming the committee for their lack of skill and perfectionist attitude but will spend it kicking their own butt to produce an audition that will blow the committee and the music director away.

LOL

[bort]

I'm a bit ignorant to all of this, so I hope these aren't bad questions:

1) How is the audition/tenure process different for an orchestral audition than it is for a teaching position as a professor at a major university? When I was in college, in my major (not music), there were a LOT of "visiting professor" or "adjunct professor" positions floating around. Students were taught, the university had good people with them, but not necessarily a long-term binding agreement unless the *right* person was there for the *right* job. Is it the same kind of thing here?

2) How is this different than a military band audition? Does someone *always* get chosen there? Are the "behavior fit" issues less prevalent because of the inherent discipline to be in the military?

I could be way off here, just curious.

[Matt G]

In regards to my "LOL" post, I am thinking that most orchestras really should re-examine the process of the audition.

It really is hard to tell in a audition what the person's "fit" will be. I think that the process should change, specifically when dealing with a solo position, that narrows the selection down to three candidates, who then rotate through a season, a'la the BSO situation.

Realistically, it is nearly impossible to tell much about a person from a audition process that might total 2 hours of playing even through the final rounds. While reputation may proceed a person, often that reputation is shaded by the perspective of those passing it on, and is at best hearsay.

I agree that if one is preparing for an audition that they should lay low in the intarwebz, be respectful, and network. However, the idea that a player could "excite" the committee enough to employ them through an audition round sounds like hogwash. There is too much subjective reasoning and environmental impacts that could effect that decision.

-Traffic/accident delays committee members to audition rounds.
-Union negotiations are underway/not going well.
-It's an overcast day.
-etc.

Could all be contributing factors to someone not being picked that day, and the committee coming up with some melodramatic excuse as to why they could not pick someone. It has been studied for many years at the business level, and committees are subject to psychological flaws as a unit, due to groupthink, alpha-leaders, etc.

So...

I honestly think the audition process is obsolete for many of the brass positions. The CSO had an exhaustive search for trumpet that went nowhere the first time. If orchestras do indeed want to have a musician for a 30-40 tenure, then maybe they should spend more than 30-40 (bit of hyperbole used) minutes listening to the final candidates. Just because it happened to work in the past, does not make it a good system.

[windshieldbug]

One thing that you want to consider before you condemn auditions/committees is what the contact actually says.

And in my orchestra (and, as I understand, most others), the entire committee of players only had 49% of the vote. The Music Director gets 51%. So basically, the committee is there to give input that may or may not get listened to.

If the Music Director isn't "thrilled", has a bad cup of coffee, etc, then even if the rest of the committee lines up behind someone, it ain't gunna happen.

Now, in my experience, the MD looks for some input. But, after all is said and done, and discussed, if the committee is ambivalent, then you don't have to take someone. If someone clicks, then you certainly will. If you don't, then you better know that there is someone else around the corner. Often, playing with the Orchestra will be the finals.

I was never on a committee that took the task lightly, let something get in the way, or was less than objective. It IS true that people listen for different things, look for different impressions, but that's why you have a committee!

[Matt G]

I am not condemning committees, I am simply stating that committees will exhibit traits of singular thinking, regardless of composition.

This happens at many levels, and it isn't a "bad" thing, it is just a result of human nature. No one is taking the task lightly, but at some level environmental factors can effect the groups collective conscious. I have heard from fairly legitimate resources about what has happened in some situations. While I might find them silly, they are completely within the realm of human behavior, given the task at hand.

If a committee does not make a decision, then fine. However, coming up with reasons that are esoteric and unmeasurable in regards to the decision not being made do not help the situation. That is why I would think that narrowing the candidates down to a small group and then using them over the course of a season would be a better system. It doesn't place the key decision in reference of 2 or less hours of audition material. Then the committee could reconvene with the AD/MD and make the process based on opinions that are much more tangible and substantiated.

[Gravid]

The audition list has been removed from the DSO web site. Anyone mind posting it, for study purposes? Thanks in advance.

Also, out of sheer curiosity, any word as to whether there will be another "open" audition?