A revised view on old small Eb tubas and mouthpieces

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:21 pm

During the thread started by me, but really initiated by questions from another list member, about the optimal choice of an American cum CC-ish sounding Eb with certain playing facilities making it easier to play, I mentioned my doubt about the adequacy of older small bore Eb tubas being played via the original mouthpieces or their modern equivalents: large bassbone mouthpieces.

This morning I took out my 1870 Besson non-comp 3+1 Eb and flushed it with hot water in the bathtub. Not too much dirt came out, but another problem surfaced: the piston springs are too sloppy. The pistons are not shot, but could be tighter. The alignment probably also could be improved by a few felt shims/rings/or-whatever-you-call-them.

With that in mind I did a playing test making sure that the pistons didnâ€™t stick midways. Nothing about virtuosity, not really about intonation either. Response was the main target of the test.

I used my Yamaha Yeo signature mouthpiece, which I use on my euph and Bb bass bones.

The result was amazing despite the fact, that I am not really in shape playingwise. A, hopefully temporarily, constricted/cramped nerve in the diaphragm area doesnâ€™t inspire playing that much.

But this 135 years old tuba revealed a resonance especially in the lower 2 octaves down to the second pedal, which surprised me. The upper 2 octaves up to the 8th partial took some more care to get, but then my breath support obviously doesnâ€™t take too much resistance right now.

In a way this lightweight instrument mostly reminds me of my YEP-641 euph, even if the latter is a heavyweight. The 1870 Besson has this amazing aliveness, resonance, and vibrancy, but it is neither CC-ish like the Besson 981, nor does it approach the sound of a bass trombone. I think it is the epitome of what older Brits would call a single Eb bass.

And then it has some smallish measurements, which truly surprised me, when I finally applied my calliper and ruler:

The bore is 0.634 right from the 4th valve placed in the leadpipe through the 1-2-3 valves, which are placed after the main tuning slide.

In style with some other old Brit tubas, the 1-2-3 slides are placed on the back of the body.

The bell diameter is only 13.78"

The weight is only 5.8KG

5 pics can be seen here:

Thumbnails of a 1870 Besson Eb tuba 3+1P non-compensating (of course, as the Blaikley patent was only taken out in 1878):

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yo ... P+non-comp

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Klaus

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imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:02 am

Maybe I missed stating my point:

An unlikely small mouthpiece may work with a small tuba.

And my big question is:

How can an instrument with such a disproportional length of small bore cylindrical tubing actually sound like a tuba?

Klaus

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:02 am

A couple of years ago, i purchased a couple of Marcinkiewicz contrabass trombone mouthpieces (106 and 107) for the purpose of playing around with an old Eb tuba with a super small shank.
They're around the same size as an old York 18 mouthpiece I have.

http://www.marcinkiewicz.com/mouthpiece ... nature.htm

--Christian

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:29 am

imperialbari wrote:How can an instrument with such a disproportional length of small bore cylindrical tubing actually sound like a tuba?

They used their ears to build them, and were not as easily swayed by what the "scientists" (who knew a lot less about acoustics, back then) told them

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:34 pm

For example... take a look at the differences between Eb and BBb mouthpieces (which were much smaller in 1924 than they are now; they look about euphonium size inside!... )

http://www.hnwhite.com/King/Mouthpieces ... 0Large.jpg

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:18 pm

windshieldbug wrote:For example... take a look at the differences between Eb and BBb mouthpieces (which were much smaller in 1924 than they are now; they look about euphonium size inside!... )

http://www.hnwhite.com/King/Mouthpieces ... 0Large.jpg

Please check your link. I came up with error messages when I tried to hyperlink.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:51 pm

Sorry; they do, indeed, seem to be gone/offline now. The image was from an H.N.White mouthpiece catalog from 1924. It showed the relative sizes of the mouthpieces as cut-in-half shapes.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:20 pm

Yes, I also looked at the site to get information in the past. I hope they are able to come back! In the meantime, try http://www.hnwhitekings.com

Right now, only information regarding trumpets and cornets, but good information nonetheless.