CC tuba market

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:41 pm

Here's hopefully something a little different from the typical pistons vs. rotaries question.

It seems that just about all of the newer models of CC tubas these days are only available with four piston valves and one rotary valve. That combination seems to work well for a lot of people. I guess it became popular because it resembles the famous York. Nothing wrong with that, but what if decide that we want something else?

I suppose tuba companies will end up making whatever it is they think we will buy. Would the market (i.e., all of us) allow for new all-rotary CC tubas, four-piston CC tubas, or perhaps other variations?

Or, is the current CC tuba market somehow different from the way I understand it?

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:04 pm

Why don't they ever put the answer I really mean on those polls? You should have also listed:

â€¢ five rotary valves

â€¢ four compensated valves

â€¢ more than five valves

Yes, I know that last one might be a bit difficult to find, but such instruments do exist--even for a C tuba.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:05 pm

Rudy came out with the much loved but little produced rotary 4345 not too long ago. Mirafone has Supposedly had a rotary CC 191 (or are they calling it a rotary 1291?) in the works for a while.

And, of course, the Mirafone 186 and 188, and Rudy 3/4, 4/4, and 5/4 are still strong sellers along with various Cerveny and VMI/B&S rotary horns including the ever popular Neptune - which seems to sell more in the rotary than piston version.

Perhaps the reason there is much more development in the piston arena is that most companies already have rotary CC tubas that work.

Adapting from Mark Twain, "The news of rotary valve's death has been greatly exaggerated."

Plus, rotary valves just look cool (yeah, like that really means anything )

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:16 pm

Mark E. Chachich · Post by **Mark E. Chachich** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:25 pm

Daryl,

In the new tuba market I see some very nice all rotory valve CC tubas. Just to name a few: Alexander, Meinl-Weston, PT, Miraphone, Rudy Meinl, Hirshburnner, etc... (some are even fairly new designs). Clearly the market still exists.

I like rotors better, both of my contrabass tubas have rotory valves. However, I think that anyone who goes into a tuba search with a closed mind on the type of valve is perhaps missing instruments that would work better for them.

best,
Mark

PS
My bass tuba has pistons and I like them.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:52 pm

It's worth noting that it seems the manufacturers are trying to get their money's worth out of the tooling they created to build York-style valve blocks. The M-W Big Valves are used on a range of instruments--in fact they use it on all their front-action piston instruments.

I don't see many instruments with new valve blocks, and the introduction of the front piston block was probably the biggest development in tooling by the manufacturers in the last 30 years. So, they propagate that to many of their new models to save cost.

Of course, many buyers want the front pistons, or it wouldn't matter what the factories do to control costs.

I was in South Bend last Friday, and played all the tubas in the store. Many were quite good, but what I expected from them. The rotary VMI Neptune, however, was much better than I expected. And of new BBb tubas, the only really big one that seems to me a real winner (and that is also affordable) is the Meinl-Weston 195--also rotary. The only tuba I've bought in the last three years was a B&S F tuba--rotary valves again.

But I didn't have any beef with the VMI 3301 I played on Friday, complete with the M-W Big Valves. And I still like the pistons on the Holton. The pistons on the York Master are to die for.

Rick "who likes what he likes and doesn't worry about the valve technology too much" Denney

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:10 pm

Maybe I'm stone age, but my "4/4" Marzan (B&M) just 4 valve CC with the tuning slide up was enough horn for me!

ThomasP · Post by **ThomasP** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:10 pm

I put that I didn't care as long as it sounded and played well. That being said, I haven't found a rotary horn I would buy.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:15 pm

Not everybody has "huge paws," even tuba-sized guys. Paws come in different sizes; you need big paws to play a lot of piston tubas.

My tubas are rotaries....lately I've tried a couple of larger rotary CC tubas, and the problems that caused me not to buy them weren't due to not being able to reach the valves. I can't play a 2155, for example, because I can't reach the pistons well enough to make it playable. Fortunately I didn't have to pay shipping to find that out.

Personally, I wish they'd make modern tubas with a 2+3 fifth valve; I like the uses of that a lot.

MA

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:17 pm

You're right. I have huge hands, but thin fingers, so I think I almost fit into this category.

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:45 pm

So as a Euphonium player, Ive only ever gone all pistons (im pretty sure u can get rotors , especially on those german models) But my question is why the heck does everyone want the extra one to be rotary? It seems so weird to me but obviously there are good reasons so let me know , this could be interesting.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:17 pm

AND... since we're basically talking about front action valves, you have your arm well out in front. If you're pulling slides (or can"t reach around with the other arm, or etc.) you'd like to use number 5 with the same hand you're using for everything else... and a thumb operated piston valve doesn't quite cut it, even if you do figure out where to mount the blasted thing!

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:21 pm

When referring to five-valved CC tubas, there are about seven or eight different configurations possible, of the ones that have been produced.

sc_curtis · Post by **sc_curtis** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:28 pm

I like rotors, but probably for the wrong reasons.

1. I apparently have sloppy (slow) valve pushing fingers, and it becomes painfully obvious on a piston horn. The rotors are more forgiving when it comes to finger technique. I just haven't have the inclination to work on it yet, as I am more concerned with other things at the moment.

2. Aside from the above differences when I play each kind, I find that instruments blow better for me in the rotor versions compared to the piston versions. An HB-2 feels better (embouchure) and sounds better to me than an HB-2P. Same with the PT horns as well.

Not to say that everyone has the same reactions to the different versions, but that is how my body reacts to them. And, of course, this may change over time, as all things seem to do.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:29 pm

Almost all of the Hirsbrunner and Perantucci models are available in 4 piston plus rotory valve or all 5 rotary valves. PT-6 vs PT-6p, PT-10 vs PT-10p, HB21 vs HB21p, etc.

I like pistons because I can take them apart and perform my own maintenance. I wouldn't know where to start with a rotary valve horn.

Pistons and rotary valves play quite differently. Nobody in the audience is going to say "I like the tuba player because he/she was playing on piston valves."

TubeNet

CC tuba market

Would you consider buying a CC tuba with anything other than four piston valves and one rotary?

CC tuba market