Mic-ing a sousaphone? Silent Brass?

[schleifdog]

Okay.

I'm getting ready to play bass in a metal band, but the "bass" will actually be my sousaphone, pushed through a ridiculously large amp.

Any thoughts on mic-ing the thing? Anyone have experience with this?

Obviously the best solution would be to get a Silent Brass and play tuba, but I don't have a tuba and Silent Brass doesn't fit in a sousaphone as far as I know. Or does it?

-Any thoughts are appreciated.

[tubatooter1940]

I use a tuba stand onstage. A Schure SM-57 mike on a tripod boom stand one foot out from my recording bell gives me the sound I like thru our p.a.. Rocking the tuba on it's stand to my left to blow out the spit valve gets the bell out away from the stationary mike far enough to spare my audience that dauphin-like huffing sound.

[a2ba4u]

Based on my limited but existent experience with mic-ed sousaphones, here are my thoughts...

If you are really playing in a metal band (I am assuming live), you most likely aren't going to be concerned with faithful sound reproduction, nor should you be. You need volume, punch, and maybe something close to pitch. Given the style of music and your role in it, I would advise you to try mic-ing yourself with a kick drum mic for several reasons:

1. They are relatively cheap (good ones run ~$150).

2. They are very rugged. Dropping them won't do much damage, and you are very unlikely to blow them out (they typically have very high SPL ratings)

3. They are small enough where a reasonable amount of creativity should be able to solve mounting problems (Just wander around Home Depot for an hour and figure something out).

4. You won't confuse the (stereotypical) burnout who is running the board with the preamp and phantom power issues that go along with "better quality" condenser mics.

If you are going to mic yourself off of an onstage speaker, then I would say you need some type of large diaphragm condenser that doesn't need to be treated like fine china. The problem with this method is that it is going to cost $$$.

I would avoid the clip-on mics as they will most likely not deliver the punch that you need. They can work for horn soloists who need to move, but they aren't designed for the bass/rhythm players.

Results may vary. Quantities are limited. May not be available in Alaska, Hawaii, or Puerto Rico.

Kyle

[greatk82]

Just about any mic (SM57, Beta 52, AKG D112, Shure Beta 98, Audix i5, etc.) should rock pretty well with this attached.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KickPad/

If you could find a way to use a yamaha sub-kick, that could be fun. Just stay away from the Shure PG52. It can't handle high SPLs and the sound breaks very easily. Your "punch" will turn to "fizz" very quickly.

[Philip Jensen]

This August I was on vacation in Lake Placid, NY. We had just arrived and the wife and I were looking for a restaurant. Across the street, hidden from our view down by the lake a band was playing. I thought it was a rock band. We passed by, didn't like the restaurants we saw, crossed the street to walk back and check out the band.

It was the Dirty Dozen Brass Band!!!!!!!!

The sousaphone sounded very bass like - enough so to have initially tricked me. I was going to ask the player what he was using but he took off quickly. The drummer was packing up so I asked if he knew what mic it was. He said it was a Shure 58 - the vocal standard. He had it WAY down in his bell, probably down to the tenon connection. He had it looped around his gooseneck to maintain it's location. The drummer didn't think there was any fancy amplifier or board settings or anything. I've got a friend with the Shure 58, but I haven't had time to try it yet.

If you try this, give us a report!

[windshieldbug]

Metal and sousaphone... what could be a more natural match!?

[Dan Schultz]

Here's what I use when I need to be amplified:

- AudioTechnica AT813a Cardioid Condenser Handheld Microphone.
- Roland KC 350 keyboard amp.

and sometimes just for fun... a Korg AX1500G effects modelling processor... which allows all sorts of things like phlangers, different amp styles, octaves, tremelo, etc etc.

I just wrap the mic in a bar towell and drop it down the bell. The location in the bell stack doesn't seem to matter.

[dmmorris]

similar to noted by other above.....

I use a Shure Beta-57A down-the-bell and jacked into an Ampeg BA115.

[Søren]

I use a Shure 58 and a Gallien-Krüger combo all the time. I just put the microphone down in the sousa appox. to where the bell meets the body, and it works just fine. Just buy a long cablefor the microphone. But before I bought that setup I used just about any kind microphone in any kind of amp and I seemed to do the job as long as the microphone does not go too far in the horn and blocks the airflow.

The only thing I found NOT to do, was to get a Microphone on a stand and then raise up to the bell. I simply can not stand in the same spot all night.

When Nat played in Youngblood Brassband he used a Bassdrum Microphone that he had cliped on his bell. He sounded great!!

[iiipopes]

Hey, bloke: you're in good company. Legend is that when Les Paul first started experimenting with developing electric guitars, one of the things he tried was jamming the point of a phonograph needle and cartridge into the top of a guitar to pick up the vibrations.

You're all making this way too hard. As bloke said, a mic to clip on the edge of the bell like used to amplify trumpets, saxes and the like is the least expensive and most reliable way to go. Run it through the processor of your choice, if you desire, and into a good board. Just don't face the bell of the souzy at the vocal monitor speakers in order to avoid feedback.

[eupher61]

It all depends on what sound you want.

I'm a loudmouthed critic of mics down the bell, but if you're after a funk, electronic, P-bass-in-a-monster-rig sort of sound, that's what you need. And, a 58 might be a good answer for that.

But, if that's the sound you want, you're using a tuba/souzie only for visual effect. You want to be playing an electric bass, IMO.

If you want a good, vibrant, full-bodied beer....er, tuba sound, a kick drum mic or a 57 or anything else that is 1)geared for horns 2)has a bass response below 50hz, fairly flat to 50 will do you fine.

[Philip Jensen]

Euph61 has it right. It depends on the sound you want. If schleifdog is going to be in a rock band, I would really consider cramming a mic down the bell. Like I said earlier in the thread, when we passed the band on the street and could hear, but not see the goup, I would have sworn it was an electric bass. He really had the group and the audience grooving.

I bought the Dirty Dozens latest CD (got it autographed too) and you can hear the difference compared to the older recordings with a different sousaphone player. Granted the latest is a live recording, but there is a much more electric sound than in earlier recordings.

That being said, in the dixie group I play in, I use an AKG 419 (I bought from Andy K of the DPT) clipped to the bell and bent down to follow the bell edge and then points ACROSS the bell, not down. I really don't like the sound with the mic pointing down the bell throat