Shoulder pains

[BopEuph]

In the last few weeks, my right shoulder has started giving me quite a bit of pain. I'm the kind that's all for playing through the pain, but it hasn't gone away, and that's a bad thing.

I'm a bit of a practice fiend. I will go upwards of 10-12 hours of playing an instrument (usually euph or upright bass, but can also include trombone or electric). The pain seems a little more present while playing my euph, but that doesn't make much sense. I've been playing my horn the same way, with the same good posture and relaxed approach for at least the last 7-8 years.

I'm a jazz bassist, but I recently started studying classically and joined the community college orchestra with the intent of improving my bowing chops and my intonation. I'm guessing that's where the pain could be coming from, but it doesn't really hurt while I'm playing (come to think of it, I don't feel pain while I play ANY instrument). The pain shows up after I put the instruments down, so it's hard to pinpoint the problem.

Any thoughts?

Nick

[sloan]

See an orthopod. I predict a cortisone injection directly into the bursa in your future...or something completely different - which is why: see an orthopod.

[oldbandnerd]

Sounds like injury to a muscle . When you are using the muscle it's warmed up and being flexed all the time . When you rest it will swell up and that's where the pain comes from . Planters Faciitis is a good example of this : http://walking.about.com/cs/heelpain/f/heelpain.htm . You walk around and no pain . Stop to rest and it hurts like hell because the muscle will swell up again . I lived through this hell twice in my life and treated it with stretching exercises and massive doses of Alleve .
No matter what has really happened to cause your pain you would probably do well to try stretching out the area before and after your 10 hour practice sessions. It couldn't hurt .

Good luck with it .
TY

[iiipopes]

I had the same thing happen to me recently to my left shoulder. I thought it was because of something at work or I had injured it. It turned out to be I was holding my 186 in a tense or cramped position and causing strain on my left shoulder. A modification to my posture, slight modification as to how I balance my 186 in my lap, and it went away.

You've been hitting it really hard. Congrats on the hard work, but please consider reexamining all aspects of your playing to see if in trying to tackle the new techniques you put yourself into some tension somewhere. It could even be as simple as adjusting your peg an inch one way or the other.

[Tubaryan12]

One thing to make sure you don't overlook: sleeping position! I had a shoulder pain for about 6 months that would come and go and I couldn't figure out what was causing it. Then I took note that the shoulder that I was sleeping on when I woke up in the morning was the one that hurt during the day. I started sleeping on my back and the pain was gone in a week and hasn't come back.

[BopEuph]

See an orthopod. I predict a cortisone injection directly into the bursa in your future...or something completely different - which is why: see an orthopod.

Due to lack of fundage, how about going to the walk in clinic?

Nick

[MartyNeilan]

Due to lack of fundage, how about going to the walk in clinic?
Nick

For a sinus infection or a cut hard, they are fine. For something like this they don't have the facilties, staff, or expertise to handle something that could be debilitating. They will probably put an ace bandage or a sling on you and tell you to stop doing whatever, and maybe give you a few aspirin.

Marty "who has learned such things the hard way"

[BopEuph]

Why are you practising 10-12 hours at a stretch?

Not the same instrument, and that includes rehearsals. I have to schedule practice before and after rehearsals, so I'm essentially playing an instrument all day. Usually ends up to be WITH rehearsals, about six hours on the euphonium, and three to four hours on bass. The rehearsals are a bit lenghthy.

Some days, like Tuesday, I brought along my electric bass because I had a large gap between my 1:30 bass lesson and the 7:30 orchestra rehearsal. I practiced euph about three to four hours, practiced very little on the upright, and worked on some stuff on electric. Besides my hard hitting morning shed on the euph, I usually change up instruments on a regular basis to relax from whatever I was practicing.

I usually stand while playing. But because Orchestra is almost two hours straight without a break, my right leg gets tired too because about 80-90% of my weight is kept on it. I'm putting serious thought into buying a stool today.

Nick

[Alex C]

No one can diagnose your problem on a forum.

Actually, your best bet would be a Physical Therapist (PT). Find one who has a good reputation for working wonders on athletes in your area and go see him with your euphonium.

There's a PT in the north Texas area who worked wonders on my wife's euphonium-caused neck pain. He's known in athletic circles as the witch doctor and it's almost true. It still took a great teacher (Richard Murrow) to show her how to correct the source of the pain.

As a coincidence, Deborah Vogel, a PT, gave a masterclass at TCU yesterday. She worked with a cellist who had similar problems to yours and fixed him right up AND improved his playing noticably by all accounts.

Here's some info on her: "Deborah Vogel is the Director of the Institute for Performance Studies in Oberlin, OH. She is a member of the Advisory Board for Dance Teacher Magazine and an active neuromuscular educator."

A much lower second alternative would be an accupuncturist. I wouldn't go to one unless it was a last ditch solution but it is better having some idiot doctor cut on you to pay for the summer home.

Cotisone = temporary
Surgery = BAD, AVOID

[BopEuph]

If any doctor says anything about surgery, I'm out. The pain is nowhere near unbearable. I had a very sharp pain when I was gigging a little more on electric bass. The reason is because I was so bored with the group (they didn't like anything besides whole notes), I would sit on the floor and play during the unreasonably long rehearsals. My wrist would be bent at a horrible angle, and it caused my index and middle finger lots of pain at the wrist every time I moved them. That was solved by leaving the band and taking about a week off the electric. I may have to do the same with the bow and see how that pans out. Well, not quit the orchestra, but not do any bow shedding for a while, then come back and fix the bad habit, whatever it is.

Nick

[RyanSchultz]

No one can diagnose your problem on a forum.

I agree.

Having said that, my opinion has come around to thinking that many of us tend to be stronger in our chests and triceps than we are in our backs/biceps. Add an instrument in front of you and, in my opinion, the risk of shoulder injury increases.

There was an interesting page in Men's Health a month or so ago about this common muscular imbalance. You may want to check it out.

Do you stretch? Do you try to take a at least a ten minute break per hour when possible?

I also concur with the recommendations to see medical professional(s).

Good luck.

[BopEuph]

Do you stretch? Do you try to take a at least a ten minute break per hour when possible?

I just got off the phone with my bass teacher, and he just mentioned that. I've gotten into the habit of not needing to warm up on the euph, though I do have a daily routine. Imagine my surprise when I took about six months off of the horn, and sounded like I just got done playing yesterday! Jazz bass is basically the same thing. So, I tend to forget playing with a bow is a new thing, and much more externally physical than is a euphonium. Therefore, I should be stretching and warming up the muscles.

I do take breaks. With the amount of time behind a music stand, I'd go crazy not to. It's a five minute break about ever 20-30 minutes to let my mind relax and stay concentrated.

If the pain doesn't go away after a break away from the bow, and changing my approach, I will call a doctor.

Nick

[Richard Murrow]

I can't encourage you strongly enough to make an appointment with Deborah Vogel, as Alex C has already mentioned. I have watched/listened to many great clinics, but I have never witnessed anything like I saw yesterday at TCU with Ms. Vogel. She worked with 4 students during the period of an hour; a cellist, vocalist, tubist, and percussionist. All were very good players and all made miraculous progress in virtually no time. I can't explain all the things she was doing, but it was primarily commonsense things, posture, and then some different exercises thrown in with a little simple psychology. She is a must see/experience. I am going to have her back again at some point to work with my entire tuba-euphonium studio. Amazing!

[BopEuph]

I just sent her a message. Let's see how that pans out. In the meantime, I'm taking a break from the bow.

There was another possibility for the injury I thought of. Where I'm studying right now is a much further walk from the parking lot to the school and no loading dock. I have my backpack on my back, with my euph in the Protec case strapped to my left shoulder. The bass is held my my left hand vertically. Sometimes it has the Real Book in the bag, adding a few pounds. I'm not sure this is the case, since everything is held my my left side. I've backpacked across Europe and through many cities in the US with the backpack being heavier and my horn without a problem. The only difference is I had a large bag of clothes strapped to my right shoulder. Instead of that, I have a double bass, which is held on my left side. So I don't know about that.

Nick