Cerveny, Amati--pretty much the same thing for most products. "Arion" is just a name for a line of instruments (e.g. "Sovereign", "Prestige", etc.).
So the model you're talking aboiut is a medium-bore 3/4-sized rotary horn, the CBB-683-4, which is what most folks will know this horn by.
Amati "Arion" BBb Bass Tuba
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Alex F
- 4 valves
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"Arion" is the model name used by Cerveny for its 3/4 size BBb tuba, Model CCB-683MR. The specs you give are almost identical to the Cerveny specs for that model.
Cerveny is a division of Amati-Denak, a Czech musical instrument maker. Cerveny tubas are made in a separate factory.
The horn pictured above is a silver horn. I'm not sure that the 683 is made in silver. Is that a picture of the actual horn offered for sale or is it just a "representative" picture.
Check the archives for Cerveny and Amati. There are lots of comments on these horns.
Cerveny is a division of Amati-Denak, a Czech musical instrument maker. Cerveny tubas are made in a separate factory.
The horn pictured above is a silver horn. I'm not sure that the 683 is made in silver. Is that a picture of the actual horn offered for sale or is it just a "representative" picture.
Check the archives for Cerveny and Amati. There are lots of comments on these horns.
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Chuck(G)
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"Arion" is not necessarily a 3/4 instrument, but rather the name used for the 'compact" wrap. There's a Kaiser BBb (the 693) that's a pretty large horn.Alex F wrote:"Arion" is the model name used by Cerveny for its 3/4 size BBb tuba, Model CCB-683MR. The specs you give are almost identical to the Cerveny specs for that model. .
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Lew
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I would call it an intermediate to better horn. Cerveny has a reputation for inconsistant quality, but the ones I have played have all played well. I think that this model is one of the better small tubas available. Of course whether it works for you depends on what you want and what you are comfortable playing, but it is a reasonable horn. $1500 is a great price if it is great shape. The photo looks like it was pulled from a web site, and may not be of the actual horn in question.
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imperialbari
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In general the models are divided between Cerveny and Amati (both within the Denak conglomerate) so, that the rotary instruments carry the Cerveny name and the piston-o-phones are called Amati.
Sometime ago another poster (sadly forgot the name) put words on something I had experienced with Czech rotary instruments all bought in the former Warsaw-pact countries: the models with no, or next to none, nickel silver outfit are also called Amati.
I have seen this naming with an oval Tenorhorn privately imported from Czechoslovakia by one of our late solo trumpeters. He was generously paid on his concert tour there, but was not allowed to exchange his fees to western currencies, so he bought locally available instruments instead.
The Amati oval Tenorhorn was an amazing player in the very high range and OK in the more normal tonal areas (my evaluation by my own play testing). But there were problems in my eyes:
The valve lever system obviously was copied from the B&S ball and socket system, but it was made entirely out of brass. In my opinion a far too soft metal for that purpose. The paddles and their hinging tubes also were made out of brass. Very vulnerable! Valve bottom caps all in brass. Very likely to corrode, so that they will stick.
I have also seen a Polish military conservatory cadet band presenting a stripe of 4 such Amati rotary F tubas. Plus several eBay sales out of Bulgaria.
If you buy such an Amati-watered-down-from-Cerveny instrument you hardly will be dissappointed by the musical functionality. That is: as long as the leadpipe doesn't get red-rot, the valve caps don't stick, and the valve transmission doesn't wear out.
And yes, I have tried to buy the amentioned Amati Tenorhorn out of the storage room of a local band. But the asked for price was not realistic (all buys may be good, if the price is right; in some cases I would ask to be paid to carry the goods away).
Klaus
Sometime ago another poster (sadly forgot the name) put words on something I had experienced with Czech rotary instruments all bought in the former Warsaw-pact countries: the models with no, or next to none, nickel silver outfit are also called Amati.
I have seen this naming with an oval Tenorhorn privately imported from Czechoslovakia by one of our late solo trumpeters. He was generously paid on his concert tour there, but was not allowed to exchange his fees to western currencies, so he bought locally available instruments instead.
The Amati oval Tenorhorn was an amazing player in the very high range and OK in the more normal tonal areas (my evaluation by my own play testing). But there were problems in my eyes:
The valve lever system obviously was copied from the B&S ball and socket system, but it was made entirely out of brass. In my opinion a far too soft metal for that purpose. The paddles and their hinging tubes also were made out of brass. Very vulnerable! Valve bottom caps all in brass. Very likely to corrode, so that they will stick.
I have also seen a Polish military conservatory cadet band presenting a stripe of 4 such Amati rotary F tubas. Plus several eBay sales out of Bulgaria.
If you buy such an Amati-watered-down-from-Cerveny instrument you hardly will be dissappointed by the musical functionality. That is: as long as the leadpipe doesn't get red-rot, the valve caps don't stick, and the valve transmission doesn't wear out.
And yes, I have tried to buy the amentioned Amati Tenorhorn out of the storage room of a local band. But the asked for price was not realistic (all buys may be good, if the price is right; in some cases I would ask to be paid to carry the goods away).
Klaus
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imperialbari
- 6 valves
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Found some (temporary) photo material supporting my point about the sparingly use of nickel silver in the Amati rotary brasses compared to the equivalent Cerveny models.
The factory photo of the Cerveny version is not as thoroughly descriptive, as I would like it to be.
One problem, that I see with the Amati rotary sample is about the lever arms being made out of brass. Hardly as stable in keeping their shape as lever arms made of nickel silver would be.
The brass bearings of the paddle arm hinges also are sore points.
When the Amati Tenorhorn photos disappear from their present server, they can be seen at:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yo ... orhorn+4RV
(You will have to join the Yahoo group in question)
Klaus
The factory photo of the Cerveny version is not as thoroughly descriptive, as I would like it to be.
One problem, that I see with the Amati rotary sample is about the lever arms being made out of brass. Hardly as stable in keeping their shape as lever arms made of nickel silver would be.
The brass bearings of the paddle arm hinges also are sore points.
When the Amati Tenorhorn photos disappear from their present server, they can be seen at:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yo ... orhorn+4RV
(You will have to join the Yahoo group in question)
Klaus