Brass Ensemble

[KevinYoung]

If you were to go see (hear) the “X” brass ensemble…

What would you listen for? Or better yet, how would you classify this ensemble as a successful AND competent group?

Knowing that every group is different, has its own definition(s) of success, and has audience expectations, as an audience member, what would be the most discriminating factor that would classify one group as more successful than the next?

I have my own ideas and expectations, but I’m just trying to get a feel of what other people think.

I hope this all makes sense…

-K

PS. This may look familiar to some of you from a separate post.

[rocksanddirt]

if the purpose of the group is not to sell records, then what is important is the audience experience.

even if the audience is just the members of the group.

[imperialbari]

Aspect #5 won’t materialise, if aspect #3 isn’t adhered to. The the ensemble may still come out boring, if the relationship with the audience isn’t there.

From what I hear of samples TE ensembles shall be extremely good to avoid coming out dull. The 4-tet with Gail Robertson on top sounds interesting.

Klaus

[KevinYoung]

Klaus,

I agree, some of the options won't happen until another has been achieved. But when you go to a recital/concert and the group doesn't connect with you, would you consider that boring? Even if they play like crap? Even if the group has tons of recordings? Long tour schedule? (I mean, many concert dates means that they're obviously good, right?)

I read your post and understand what you think is important. I'm just playing Devil's advocate, and I'm reevaluating what I think is important in ensemble playing/performance by using this forum as a sounding board. So no offense intended.

Cheers,
K

[windshieldbug]

You need to connect with your audience.

You cannot provide #3 without doing #'s 2 & 4.

[KevinYoung]

Bump to keep this from getting too far down the list.

-k

[imperialbari]

I listen to the sound meeting my ears not to the listed number of CD’s issued. I am equally critical towards everybody, but for in my pedagogical work, where evaluation of progress in the context of potential and dedication of course are immensely important factors.

That said I have my favourites. If at all possible I watch the televised New years concerts of the BPO and the VPO. One year both sounded horribly out of tune with no blend of overtones. I was most surprised until I found out that I had run into a pneumonia causing swellings that in turn had compromised my hearing.

One ensemble well known in brass circles swept me off my feet back in 1989 at a live concert. Since then 3 players have left and have been replaced. The concept is the same, but that ensemble no longer is able to catch my attention because that concept no longer is backed by the same exceptional musicianship.

Klaus

[Brassworks 4]

I'm surprised to see 0 votes for memorization. Granted its not THEE most important for the success of a small ensemble but it ranked pretty high in the success category of our group.

First of all, if you get away from the printed music, you are forced to listen in a totally different way - which enhances the cohesiveness of the group. Secondly, you can connect with the audience on a whole 'nuther level due to the freedom of being unlocked from a stagnant stage position. Eye contact among the ensemble increases, along with eye contact with the audience. Thirdly, the area of "entertaining" increases substantially (especially with choreography)

None of us had really tried memorizing much prior to the conversation on what it would take for us to reach another level. Yet when comparing us to well known successful groups (for example, Canadian Brass) we all agreed that memorization was a main missing factor in our performances.

It took a lot of work to memorize our first piece - we each developed our own technique of memorization - and like just about everything, it became easier and easier. In the end, we could provide about 90 min of memorized music.

That missing link indeed took us to another level.

Memorization may not be THEE most important factor but it ranks way up on my list nonetheless.

[Brassworks 4]

and P.S. to JPNirschl, we used cornets as well!!

[David Richoux]

There was a 5 member group out of the San Francisco area simply called "The Brass Band" - they memorized everything, had great fundamentals (all classically trained,) had super high entertainment value - they were much funnier than the Canadian Brass, with lots of physical comedy, schtick and vaudevillian skills, they toured the world and made some OK-good money, released a few albums (this was before CDs) and delighted their audiences. They won the San Francisco Comedy Competition in 1984. and here is a link to a German newspaper article (that does not translate very well;-)
http://archiv.abendblatt.de/ha/1987/pdf ... HA_016.pdf" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" or
http://www.abendblatt.de/extra/service/ ... 6_9536.xml" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" and there is an article deep in the Chicago Sun Times archives I can't get to.

A some point they decided to just stop. I have managed to find references to a few of the former members - some still live around the Bay Area or Northern California and are somewhat active in the music scene - but they are basically invisible on the Internet today.

So it goes...

I think anybody who saw them remembers, and if you can find their recordings - get them!
I found the line-up for "The Brass Band" - at least the line-up for this album: "Just a Tiny Boo-Boo... Live in Australia" 1981,Bent Records.

CPL. Louis Tooloose (Bob Leach) Trumpets
Jimby (Jim Aaron) Trumpets
The Captain (Bob Jennings) Trombone and Tuba
Buford (Phineas T. Buford III ) Baritone Horn (very small, maybe actually a Tenor Horn, I still recall seeing him with an Alto Horn) Trombone, Tuba
Fritz Frümheimer (Johannes Mager) Tuba, Trombone

[eupher61]

memorization? Important? Not in my book, not for this type group.

Sure, the CB, and following that lead the EBQ, memorized and clowned and drew crowds, and really sold it.

But, without the music, there was nothing to sell. Without that (those) assemblages of high level technical and interpretative musical ability, along with people that got along with each other (at least, tolerated each other... ) all the slick marketing, schtick, and recordings in the world wouldn't have made a difference.

Frankly, I wish the circle would close; it would be great to go to a CB concert and hear the Arnold or Bozza, instead of transcriptions of things that really don't work on brass. Much less the pseudo-pop and pseudo-jazz stuff, which I frankly refuse to listen to.

Music. Even Michael Jackson has a high level of musical talent, the rest is PR.

[tbn.al]

Just got around to reading the OP so I deleted my response to the poll which was off target for the OP.

[Brassworks 4]

Even the Canadian Brass does not memorize all of their music.

I should have mentioned that our full concert didn't include ALL memorized. For example, one way we'd start our show would be with "William Tell Overture" - The slow opening would be from our seats/stands. At the pause before the Allegro, we'd shoot off a stage canon (that had been primed before the concert and ignited by our trombonists foot) Then we'd stand and move downstage and finish the piece. It was very effective. Just an example.

There were pieces that just worked better while seated -

[termite]

There was a 5 member group out of the San Francisco area simply called "The Brass Band"

I remember seeing "The Brass Band" in Melbourne several times back in the late seventies - early eighties. They were a very good act. Every brass player in Melbourne used to go. I might even have a copy of the record lying around somewhere.

Regards

Gerard

[imperialbari]

Once saw an hourlong TV transmission of a concert with The Brass Band. They used euphonium in stead of horn. In one number the eupher and the trombonist grabbed old beaten up BBb tubas and and together with the tubist did a unison boogie bass line behind the trumpeters doing fun stuff.

Klaus

[David Richoux]

Once saw an hourlong TV transmission of a concert with The Brass Band. They used euphonium in stead of horn. In one number the eupher and the trombonist grabbed old beaten up BBb tubas and and together with the tubist did a unison boogie bass line behind the trumpeters doing fun stuff.

Klaus

I found a Spanish TV guide that listed that 1 hour show when I was searching. Wish it was still available somewhere, but there is nothing floating around that I can find.

I have the Australian LP, a US EP and a mostly spoken word cassette release from some of the band members - there was also a 45 RPM version of "Rocky vs. Rocky and Bullwinkle" theme songs a friend of mine has.

Most of the times I saw the Brass Band were at San Francisco "Dickens Fairs" or things like that. I never saw them in a major concert hall, but they should have been there!

[Steve Inman]

If you were to go see (hear) the “X” brass ensemble…

What would you listen for?

I would only go to hear the "X" brass ensemble if they had good entertainment value. Most of your poll choices just meet the "minimum daily allowance" factor -- i.e., if they can't do "that" (fundamentals, memorized music (at least some of it), artistic ability), then they should stay home.

For **ME** and my unknown amateur quintet, we're still working on improving the fundamentals, which would have been my vote for **MY** group. But for a touring, professional ensemble, I wouldn't go see them if they weren't likely to be entertaining in the live setting. After all, I HAVE a CD player already.

Cheers,

[Steve Inman]

and P.S. to JPNirschl, we used cornets as well!!

And I quite enjoy my Brassworks 4 Christmas CD ....

(Merry Christmas!)

[Brassworks 4]

Thanks Steve! You made my day --

Connie