Besson Sovereign 968 versus Prestige 2052

[EuphoniousJoy]

Hey
I am starting to look into these two horns.
I would appreciate any info that anyone has about the difference in sound and quality of these two horns. There are a couple Prestige horns for sale on this site, and I am severely tempted... I have played on the Sovereign Compensating 968 for 3 years and really like it. How does the 2052 compare? In all areas? Are the 2052s compensating horns? What type of information can I get, are there any websites, articles, etc. that would help me in my information search?

Thanks for any help!

[Weaponofchoice]

Assuming you are talking about the German (not London) made Besson 968 and 2052 they are the EXACT same horn except for the BIG difference of the main tuning slide trigger. The tuning slide trigger is a great addition but adds a whole different aspect to the horn such as:

1. The tuning slide trigger makes the horn heavier because of the added machinery and braces.
2. The main tuning slide is made thinner so it will move easier, but this means water constantly leaks
3. The grip between the thumb trigger and the 4th valve is very wide so if you have small hands it may be a bit awkward. I actually use both my index and middle finger so I can reach both the valve and the trigger.
4. Different notes require different amounts of triggering. For Example high concert Eb (5-6 partial) needs full trigger, F and F# need only slight, while other notes need about half. A good ear is required! Also the trigger won't do all the work, you still have to center the horn and be aware of the tendency of the pitches.

That being said the trigger is an amazing and long over due feature of the euphonium. Let me reiterate that aside from the trigger the 968 and 2052 are the SAME horn. Hope this helps

[druby]

Uh...actually the 2052 and 968 are NOT the same horn. The 2052 is paired with the 967. Both have the larger 12" bell and a bit different leadpipe than the 2051/968. This results in a larger, more diffuse sound, and possibly more volume at the highest levels. The 968 and 2051 have the 11.25" bell (much more like the older New Standard and Imperial horns of the 60's/70's). The 968 and the 2051 tend to be a bit more focused and perhaps easier to play at the very softest levels.

In addition to the trigger and gold trim, depending on when made, the Prestige has different valve caps. The Prestige has always come with two sets, lighter (Sovereign) and heavier (Prestige) caps. There is some difference in sound and responsiveness when using the heavier caps. In standard trim, I find the Prestige a bit easier to control than the Sovereign.

That said, my own personal 2051-2 Prestige has a couple of mods that have made all the difference. These include a heavyweight 4th valve cap made for me by Paul Riggett of Sterling and some tweaking by Matt Walters at Dillon Music. With these mods, the horn is a fabulous example of the breed. It is more responsive, easier to play, much more open and rich in the low register, and much more controllable than my classic older (1980) model 967S Sovereign.

In all cases, the mechanical integrity of the German-made Bessons, particularly valve action, is vastly superior to the older English Bessons. Some feel that the tone off the new German horns is a bit lighter than the English horns and that the York equivalents are slightly darker.

Doug

[Weaponofchoice]

SORRY! Druby is right I got my model numbers confused. The 967 is the same basic horn as the 2052. And I forgot to mention it comes with an extra set of valve caps.

[Brassworks 4]

I used to have a Sovereign 967 (12" bell) but sold it to buy my Prestige 251 (11.25" bell)

There are things about the Sovereign that I miss - I loved the response in the low register. That horn just spoke beautfully! Karl Humble had removed the brace on the lead pipe for me which he said would free up the sound. I didn't have it much after that however to determine if that was the case or not - the Prestige came out - I felt the need to upgrade right away (mid-life thing? who knows) What I love about the Prestige is the ease in the upper register. And the pitch-finder on the tuning slide is a great addition. Keeping your chops stable and being able to tune with the trigger is a plus. Yes, the Prestige weight increased and that did take a while to get used to. But then again, we did most of our performing standing and I'm not that strong, physically.

The span from the left thumb to the 4th valve is quite a spread. I tend to have to use my thumb on trigger and more of my middle finger on the 4th. That might not be an issue for a male with larger hands (or a female with larger hands for all that matters) It just takes some getting used to.

I think overall, I prefer the Prestige. I wish I could find my old Sovereign though and spend a day with it. I'd be able to give a better comparison. You know how it is with a new toy.

Good luck.

[oedipoes]

I have the former 2052 (made in England).
There is nothing on the market now (except for the new German made 2052's) that plays better for me. That is, in the price range from the prestige or just below.
I tried yamaha custom, willson 2950 and 2900, meinl-weston Demondrae Thurman, Sterling and others.
There are more expensive euphoniums out there, that might be 'better' (or tailored to your specific needs or wishes): Adams custom, Inderbinen, Hirsbrunner...
I liked the Inderbinen a lot personally, but lacked euro's...

Wim

[pgym]

I have the former 2052 (made in England).
I tried yamaha custom, willson 2950 and 2900, meinl-weston Demondrae Thurman, Sterling and others.
There are more expensive euphoniums out there, that might be 'better' (or tailored to your specific needs or wishes): Adams custom, Inderbinen, Hirsbrunner...

1) Meinl-Weston's top-of-the-liine euph is the 751 "Phoenix"; the Ambassador 5050 "Demondrae Thurman" is made by Miraphone;

2) Sterling offer a level of customization to the customer's preferences that equals, if not surpasses, that of Adams, Geneva, Hirsbrunner, Inderben, etc.

[oedipoes]

I have the former 2052 (made in England).
I tried yamaha custom, willson 2950 and 2900, meinl-weston Demondrae Thurman, Sterling and others.
There are more expensive euphoniums out there, that might be 'better' (or tailored to your specific needs or wishes): Adams custom, Inderbinen, Hirsbrunner...

1) Meinl-Weston's top-of-the-liine euph is the 751 "Phoenix"; the Ambassador 5050 "Demondrae Thurman" is made by Miraphone;

2) Sterling offer a level of customization to the customer's preferences that equals, if not surpasses, that of Adams, Geneva, Hirsbrunner, Inderben, etc.

1-oops, you're right, but tried them both and still like the prestige better
2-yes, but the price of the other ones is higher (inderbinen is 8640EUR !!) The Sterling is not at all cheap, but seems affordable, more than the others.

[euphdude]

I think with some mouthpieces (the SM series come to mind), the 968 has a more centered, compact tone compared to the larger belled euphoniums. I found the use of Bach megatone pieces broadened the sound considerably on the 968. So, depending on which mouthpiece I use, I can make the 968 broader, richer, and wider (like the bigger belled horns) or more centered and compact. I do love the rich broad sound, but for 99% of what I do, the more centered tone serves me better.