Vintage Tuba, 1911 JW York & Sons

[hald]

I impulsively bought a 1911 J.W. York and Sons tuba off Ebay and it arrived this evening. Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1911-J-W-Yo ... 7C294%3A50

Except for the tarnish it seems to be in good condition. It is in Eb. I played it using the original mouthpiece and found it has a good sound. On the 3rd valve branch, about 3/4's down there is an oval of tubing with a tuning slide matching the valve branch tubing diameter. It doesn't appear to have an air passage between the valve branch tubing and the oval tubing. The oval is attached to the branch with 2 tiny soldered braces. The branch has it's own tuning slide. How is this slide used?

[Rick Denney]

I impulsively bought a 1911 J.W. York and Sons tuba off Ebay and it arrived this evening. Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1911-J-W-Yo ... 7C294%3A50

Except for the tarnish it seems to be in good condition. It is in Eb. I played it using the original mouthpiece and found it has a good sound. On the 3rd valve branch, about 3/4's down there is an oval of tubing with a tuning slide matching the valve branch tubing diameter. It doesn't appear to have an air passage between the valve branch tubing and the oval tubing. The oval is attached to the branch with 2 tiny soldered braces. The branch has it's own tuning slide. How is this slide used?

That's a low-pitch/high-pitch conversion for the third valve. You can put the slides in orthogonal to their current position to add the extra loop into the instrument. The first and second valves would have been pulled, and there's probably a mark on the slides showing where they should be pulled to. The low-pitch conversion would have also required a conversion main tuning slide, which would have included a full loop. If I'm right, the instrument is currently configured for high pitch, which should be quite high. Have you checked the intonation?

The 28" dimension seems to confirm it. In the 1920's catalog, the Model 641 looks just like this one. It was listed as being 33" tall in low pitch and 28-1/2" tall in high and low pitch.

Rick "who can't make the picture fit this theory perfectly, but with nothing else to suggest" Denney

[Lew]

That's a low-pitch/high-pitch conversion for the third valve.

I believe that loop is for the main slide. I bet somewhere on the loop there is a little plate with a 1911 patent date stamped on it.

I had a 4 valve front action York Eb that had the same kind of tuning "donut." It could be used to lengthen the main slide to allow it to play in low pitch, which was too low to be useful, or left out to play in high pitch. I found that with it set in high pitch there was just enough length in the main slide to pull to play in modern pitch. Since the valve slides were long enough to play in low or high pitch there should be plenty of room to pull them to the right length.

[Dean E]

. . . . Except for the tarnish it seems to be in good condition. It is in Eb. I played it using the original mouthpiece and found it has a good sound. On the 3rd valve branch, about 3/4's down there is an oval of tubing with a tuning slide matching the valve branch tubing diameter. It doesn't appear to have an air passage between the valve branch tubing and the oval tubing. The oval is attached to the branch with 2 tiny soldered braces. The branch has it's own tuning slide. How is this slide used?

The slide is for high or low pitch. The valve slides probably had factory-scribed marks indicating how far to pull for low pitch.

The factory finish probably was satin silver, which is lovely but difficult for tarnish removal. I would recommend preserving the satin silver.

This is not York's Monster Eb, but it may surprise you with good false tones.

[Rick Denney]

I believe that loop is for the main slide.

Lew, how does it install? I'm looking at the picture with all the slides removed, and I'm having trouble figuring out the mechanics. If it was a complete loop, I could see how it would offset one leg of the main slide forward, but it's just a regular u-shaped pull slide, too narrow to fit anything useful on the main slide.

Rick "who's read about the patented conversion slide but never seen one" Denney

[windshieldbug]

I have a York Eb just like that one, and the loop is for the main slide.
The patent for the high and low pitch on the slide should read 1910.

If you pull out the crook with the round pull on it, you will have two open slide outers.
Pull out the main slide, and insert the near end into one side of the loop instead of the slide outer going to the bell. Then plug the small slide back in to the two remaining slide outers, completing the circuit as it were. The effect is adding the small loop into the over-all distance.

The AFM pushed for A=440 in 1917, but horns built before that may be built to the 1887 Vienna Pitch Conference of A=435.

We think pitch may vary a lot now, but back then it might have been 50 or more from house to house!

[Lew]

I believe that loop is for the main slide.

Lew, how does it install? I'm looking at the picture with all the slides removed, and I'm having trouble figuring out the mechanics. If it was a complete loop, I could see how it would offset one leg of the main slide forward, but it's just a regular u-shaped pull slide, too narrow to fit anything useful on the main slide.

Rick "who's read about the patented conversion slide but never seen one" Denney

Yea, what windshieldbug said. It's hard to visualize without actually seeing it and using it in person.

[imperialbari]

The repitching loop is badly illustrated in the auction presentation.

Similar devices are not too commonly seen. The ones I remember are erom other dual-purpose instrument set-ups:

The Yamaha mellophone model used to have such loop making F and Eb pitches possible.

A few oldere MW rotary tubas used this system to change between a long whole step and a long minor third in the 5th valve.

Klaus

[Dean E]

Here are a few pics for the spatially gifted.

IMG_0036_1 (Small).JPG

IMG_0037_1 (Small).JPG

IMG_0049 (Small).JPG

[Dean E]

And the rest of the pics.

IMG_0055 (Small).JPG

IMG_0052 (Small).JPG

[hald]

Thanks everyone for all the great information. Thanks for the photos!

"The factory finish probably was satin silver, which is lovely but difficult for tarnish removal. I would recommend preserving the satin silver."

I began cleaning it this evening. I am relieved the silver texture on the instrument in the photos looks identical to my instrument. I have seen frosted silver, but guess I've never before seen satin silver on a tuba. It is beautiful.

This tuba had paint or something on the bell. Techs will probably be horrified, but I tried Goof-Off, paint thinner, Jasco brand paint remover, and Easy Off Oven Cleaner, and a fine polyester white pad (used for polishing floors) to get the paint stuff off. The chemicals did not cause any apparent damage to the silver finish.

The original mouthpiece needs replating. It also seems very small, so I wonder what current models work well on an Eb tuba. Suggestions?
Thanks in advance - hald
P.S. The leadpipe and mouthpiece receptacle are in excellent condition with no dents or dings. Also, is it possible to have a mouthpiece replated so that the original maker's marks can be preserved?

[imperialbari]

Same idea applied to a trumpet in C and Bb:

[Rick Denney]

Here are a few pics for the spatially gifted.

You mean for the spatially ungifted, apparently including me. I could not visualize this. Thanks for posting the photos.

Rick "seeing how this would be patentable" Denney

[windshieldbug]

The original mouthpiece needs replating. It also seems very small, so I wonder what current models work well on an Eb tuba. ... is it possible to have a mouthpiece replated so that the original maker's marks can be preserved?

The correct period Eb tuba mouthpiece looks more like a modern bass trombone mouthpiece.

In my experience, if you can work with it, the correct mouthpiece is often the most well-matched you'll find. Too large, and you won't get a bigger sound, just more intonation problems.

Yes, you can have the mouthpiece "restored".

Out of curiosity, what mouthpiece is it? If it is a York & Sons, what number is it (may be down on the shank)?

[Dean E]

. . . . The original mouthpiece needs replating. It also seems very small, so I wonder what current models work well on an Eb tuba. Suggestions? . . .

I assume that the receiver is a small receiver, the same as most bass trombones.

That original mouthpiece is a pretty good solution, and probably has a very large backbore. You could get it repaired and replated at a moderate expense, from what I read.

For a modern mouthpiece, try a Denis Wick (DW) 3, 4 or 5 (NOT 3L, 4L, or 5L, which have a larger shank).

Denis Wick 3 is the smaller of those three models, and is probably appropriate for your mid-sized horn. (I use a DW 5 for my York Eb monster.)

[imperialbari]

For a modern mouthpiece, try a Denis Wick (DW) 3, 4 or 5 (NOT 3L, 4L, or 5L, which have a larger shank).

Denis Wick 3 is the smaller of those three models, and is probably appropriate for your mid-sized horn. (I use a DW 5 for my York Eb monster.)

The other way round:

DW1 is the largest and DW5 is the smallest in the DW tuba series.

Klaus

[Dean E]

For a modern mouthpiece, try a Denis Wick (DW) 3, 4 or 5 (NOT 3L, 4L, or 5L, which have a larger shank).

Denis Wick 3 is the smaller of those three models, and is probably appropriate for your mid-sized horn. (I use a DW 5 for my York Eb monster.)

The other way round:

DW1 is the largest and DW5 is the smallest in the DW tuba series.

Klaus

Ooops! I should have looked first. Are there any jokes about dyslexic tuba players?

I haven't played my Eb York in about three years, although I did toot on it a little last night when it was out for photos. It really does have a beautiful tone if I say so myself. People always did say, "Your horn sounds nice."

[windshieldbug]

Are there any jokes about dyslexic tuba players?

Only abut players...

[Matt G]

People always did say, "Your horn sounds nice."

You should kick them in the shins and say, "Don't my shoes hurt?"

[iiipopes]

The original mouthpiece needs replating. It also seems very small, so I wonder what current models work well on an Eb tuba. Suggestions?
Thanks in advance - hald
P.S. The leadpipe and mouthpiece receptacle are in excellent condition with no dents or dings. Also, is it possible to have a mouthpiece replated so that the original maker's marks can be preserved?

I agree the Denis Wick 3 is the usual mouthpiece. I have a friend with a Martin eefer that is almost identical in configuration to your York, and it sounds great with the 3. On the Martin, however, once you get to the "false pedals," the "slots" are so wide that valves are almost superfluous. But the true pedal Eb rings out well, indeed.

Also, there is another York just like yours at Dillons right now, and Matt put into the blurb that the "donut" is a high/low pitch loop.