Valve Issues With A Thor

[TubaNerd88]

I know this topic has been made before, but I'd like to see if my problem is different.

I've had my Thor for about 2 months now, and it's developed some major sticking problems. There are no dents on the horn at all, including the valve casing. I oil my valves frequently (2 to 3 times a week). My 1st and 2nd valves are experiencing some major sticking, and I have no idea how to fix it at all. I've cleaned each valves with soap and water, dried them, applied fresh oil to them, and they still seem to stick. Does anyone know what the problem might be? I'm running out of options and I need to get these valves fixed VERY soon.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, the horn also has some rattling issues whenever I recess the valve (upstroke). I've taken it to my local instrument shop and they couldn't find anything wrong with it, nor the same thing with the sticky valves.

- Matthew "who worries about his sticky valves" Gray

[imperialbari]

This sounds like a tour to the greater Memphis area is imminent. There a prominent Thor owner/player has reported of his cleaning of the valve guide grooves. He has the tools and the knowledge.

Already now I would oil more frequently with an oil not building up much residue. My choice is Blue Juice.

Klaus

[The Jackson]

If you haven't already, I'd say it's worth a try to experiment with different kinds of valve oils. I had bad valve sticking problems on my 621, but switching to a lighter oil helped a lot.

[TubaNerd88]

Thank you all for your kind words and input.

I just purchased some Blue Juice not more than an hour ago. I wiped off every bit of oil and excess residue from the inside of the casing, the springs, the valves, and the bottom caps. After applying the Blue Juice, it works like a charm. I still hear the rattling, but I'm sure that's just a minor fix which I will worry about at a later point.

The Blue Juice might only be a temporary fix, but as long as it can last me through marching band auditions next Monday, then I'm fine with that. Thank you all once again! I will keep this up to date if something happens to go wrong again.

- Matthew Gray

[TubaNerd88]

Well, I have some bad news. The sticking has occurred once again. I took it to a local shop near my college, Cooper Band Instrument and Repair, and Chad said that the valve guides need to be replaced pretty soon otherwise they will start spinning. Does anyone know how much the average price is for replacing a full set of valve guides?

[MileMarkerZero]

Something to check:

In the guide grooves in the casings, look for any lime deposits. In an area that has a high mineral content in the water, lime forms really easily. I have to clean out my guide grooves on my Conn every couple of months to keep the valves free. Knoxville is built on top of limestone, and I know a portion of Little Rock is, as well. If you already have lime deposits in your bottom caps or in your tuning slides, I'll bet that's your problem.

[JHardisk]

Geez kid... One of the most reputable tuba repairmen tells you the exact problem with your tuba, and you choose to ignore it? Meinl Weston valves suck! On my brand new friggin 20 thousand dollar Baer tuba, I had to have this exact procedure done a week after I bought it. I also replaced the guides with ones made from more durable delrin. It's a cheap, easy repair.

Listen to Joe and let a qualified repair person file the dang guides! No oil is going to fix your problem!

I am now feeling old, as I just had a shake my head and think "kids these days" moment...

[tbn.al]

Memphus is only 3 1/2 hours away from you. Call bloke. Make an appointment some day at or around noon, he's flexible. Drive to Memphus, leaving early enough to go by Tops and pick up lunch for both of you. Enjoy a really good BBQ sanwich with the man while he fixes your Thor. If you are lucky you may be allowed to toot a couple of notes on the famous CC helicon. Pay the man for his efforts and drive back to Russlleville. Nice one day road trip. You'll be glad you did.

[TubaNerd88]

UPDATE!

I just got through getting a visit from Joe (bloke) as he was on his way to Fort Worth, Texas for the weekend. He was nice enough to stop by in Little Rock to work on my horn. We sat outside of a church out on the parking lot while he worked on my horn.

My 1st valve is barely sticking still, but he did a lot of work to it. He told me to get some very fine sandpaper and file down the spots where the rubbing is taking place as well as filing down the slots to get rid of the tarnished silver inside it, and it should definitely fix it. He knows his stuff, and is definitely fun to talk to. He was even nice enough to put his synthetic felts on all of my valves and they work like a charm!

Thanks a lot, Joe! Maybe we'll go out for some BBQ sometime.

- Matthew Gray

[hald]

Reading the thread, I'm glad the issue of silver came up. I had sticky valve issues with a Jupiter 482. I took it to a local shop and the tech mentioned that silver might be the culprit. When I got home I disassembled the valves, got a flashlight and looked inside the valve casings. There was a bit of silverplate on the inner valve casings in the tops and bottoms. I took damp cellulose sponges, rolled them up and put them in the casings to prevent anything from getting where it shouldn't be (the tubing, etc.). I then got out my Dremel Moto-Tool, and using a white felt polishing pad and Wright's Silver Cream, gave it a quick polishing. I gave each valve casing (tops and bottoms only) about 10 seconds each, polishing the inner casing in a circular manner. I didn't try to completely remove the silver. The Dremel has a fairly high rpm so remember that less is usually best and you don't need to use much, if any, pressure. I used q-tips dipped in Silver Cream to clean the guides, and q-tips dampened with water to clean and rinse the guides. After doing each valve casing (top and bottom) I rinsed the sponges, wrung them out, rolled them up and put them back through the casings to make sure everything was spotlessly clean. I used tweezers to grip the sponges as I turned them and gently pulled them through the casings.

If you find that the silverplate is very thick you can leave the silver cream on a while; it slowly dissolves silver. If you use the Dremel use a very light touch. If you aren't familiar with using a Dremel find someone who is; you can do a lot of damage real quick; and be sure it is plugged in to a GFCI outlet (Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor) to prevent electrocuting yourself (these are the electrical outlets with red and black buttons usually found in the bathrooms, laundry rooms, and kitchens of homes). The valves on my brand new tuba have performed perfectly ever since. I hope this might save you and others some time and elbow grease...
-hald

[rocksanddirt]

Reading the thread, I'm glad the issue of silver came up. I had sticky valve issues with a Jupiter 482. I took it to a local shop and the tech mentioned that silver might be the culprit. When I got home I disassembled the valves, got a flashlight and looked inside the valve casings. There was a bit of silverplate on the inner valve casings in the tops and bottoms. I took damp cellulose sponges, rolled them up and put them in the casings to prevent anything from getting where it shouldn't be (the tubing, etc.). I then got out my Dremel Moto-Tool, and using a white felt polishing pad and Wright's Silver Cream, gave it a quick polishing. I gave each valve casing (tops and bottoms only) about 10 seconds each, polishing the inner casing in a circular manner. I didn't try to completely remove the silver. The Dremel has a fairly high rpm so remember that less is usually best and you don't need to use much, if any, pressure. I used q-tips dipped in Silver Cream to clean the guides, and q-tips dampened with water to clean and rinse the guides. After doing each valve casing (top and bottom) I rinsed the sponges, wrung them out, rolled them up and put them back through the casings to make sure everything was spotlessly clean. I used tweezers to grip the sponges as I turned them and gently pulled them through the casings.

If you find that the silverplate is very thick you can leave the silver cream on a while; it slowly dissolves silver. If you use the Dremel use a very light touch. If you aren't familiar with using a Dremel find someone who is; you can do a lot of damage real quick; and be sure it is plugged in to a GFCI outlet (Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor) to prevent electrocuting yourself (these are the electrical outlets with red and black buttons usually found in the bathrooms, laundry rooms, and kitchens of homes). The valves on my brand new tuba have performed perfectly ever since. I hope this might save you and others some time and elbow grease...
-hald

checking for silver is a good idea, though as someone with some Dremel experience, i'd do it by hand.

[TubaNerd88]

I directed Matthew to use a small piece of 2000 grit paper on the inside of the #1 casing (to remove the silver) and only stroke in the direction of the casing (up-and-down)...and to clean it out with paper towels soaked in valve oil when he's done.

Only his first and second valves (the ones used the most, OF COURSE) were sticking. WithOUT removing the (uneven) silver plating from the casing interiors, I was able to get #2 to stop sticking completely.

The #1 nylon guide was a bit dished from being turned in about a half-turn too much...so I carefully filed off the top and the bottom. (Dammit, I brought everything that I could possibly need EXCEPT some friggin razor blades!)

I don't think his guide slots were the culprits after all...I found that (right in the areas that were sticking - when specific sideways pressure was applied to the pistons) there were ports on the pistons where the external wall was "pooched out" around the edges. As the pistons are much harder metal than the casings, all the lapping in the world wouldn't have removed those small bulges. I used c. 600-then-1000-then-1500-then-2000 grit paper (as I was literally sitting down on a 10" concrete curb with no "real" tools) and worked down those bulges around the culprit ports. Again, I was able to do a perfect repair on the #2 piston and it no longer sticks. I simply ran out of time with #1 (I arrived at my final travel destination, Fort Worth, after midnight), but it is much better. I think I'm going to send Matthew a new #1 guide to install. Perhaps that (along with removing the silver from the casing...as oxidizing silver DOES tend to be "grabby") will be the final factors in the #1 problem. Again, I would rate the #1 as 75% better (unfortunately, not yet 100%), but the #2 is (I think...??) now working perfectly.

Good luck Matthew, and best wishes...That was really all I could do for you in thirty-five minutes, squatting down on a curb, with no tools (and no reading glasses either).

- bloke

Well, I wouldn't be too upset about not finishing the 1st valve. I practiced for a little bit last night, and I couldn't really feel any sticking or hanging at all. I will still try the method you told me whenever I can get a hold of some sandpaper. You've done a wonderful job by taking time out of your day to help me. I really appreciate it. Have fun this weekend!

- Matthew Gray