Convincing my family I need F tuba

[Lee Jacobs]

I am currently a junior tuba performance major at Penn State. I feel that I need to start playing F tuba soon being that I will have auditions for festivals, grad schools, and jobs all within the next few years. However, my family doesn't believe that this is something I really need. They feel I would be better off waiting until I get a job someday and then buy an F tuba. I am trying to convince them to co-sign on a student loan for me. I am telling them that I will be better off with the debt than without it because I will be able to get into better grad programs and win better jobs. I was hoping that maybe some of you might be able to give testimonies of the importance of playing F tuba on all of these auditions and so on.

[kontrabass]

It is imperative, if you want a career as a tuba player, to start playing F tuba in college, preferably around 2nd or 3rd year.

The best way you can convince your family of this is to take an extra part-time job or two to pay for it. I imagine they're still reeling from the debt of your CC tuba!

[tmmcas1]

Perhaps a phone call to your parents from your teacher, Velvet Brown, would do the trick?

Tom

[Joe Baker]

I'll give you a little insight into the mind of a parent, which you may either use or ignore. By way of my credentials, I have a 20-year-old college student, a HS senior, and a HS sophomore, and a pretty good job that, after supporting the aforementioned kids, has failed to make me wealthy.

To most parents who want to fund their children's education, there is genuine concern whether there will be enough money to make all the way through college for all the kids. Every significant expense has to be carefully weighed before deciding that it is necessary.

One way my kids can convince me that something is really necessary is if THEY are willing to make sacrifices to get it. I'll pay for private lessons IF my kid will practice. I'll pay for the car IF my kid pays for the insurance. What sacrifice have you demonstrated your willingness to make? Are you willing to take off for a semester and work full time, and plow just about your whole earnings into the tuba? Sell your contrabass tuba and make do with a lesser one? Do you have a car you can sell, and ride a bike or take the bus?

I also question whether you should be waiting for your parents to make this happen. I'm not a tuba pro, but the couple of them I've known have not been the sort of people who waited around for other people to make their dream happen. They sacrificed their time, worked extra jobs, WHATEVER it took. Are you willing to make those sacrifices? To work a job but live on ramen, PB sandwiches, and canned veggies? To give up the car, and maybe the girlfriend, for now? Just how important IS this to you?
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who hopes Lee has the drive it'll take to get all the stuff he aspires to.

[MaryAnn]

Read again what Joe said.

In addition to that, realize that you don't "have" to finish undergrad in four years. Yeah, you want to, it's the norm, it's expected, etc etc.

But if you take five years because you're working part time to pay for that F tuba, you will be one year more mature, and have one more year of serious practice under your belt. That will put you ahead, not behind, in the audition scene.

MA

[Dan Schultz]

I am currently a junior tuba performance major at Penn State. ...... I am trying to convince them to co-sign on a student loan for me. .....I am telling them that I will be better off with the debt than without it because I will be able to get into better grad programs and win better jobs. I was hoping that maybe some of you might be able to give testimonies of the importance of playing F tuba on all of these auditions and so on.

I'm wondering.... are your parents aware that the odds of you finishing school and making big bucks as a tuba performance major are pretty slim? Unless you get a part-time job to provide at least part of your support, you may have to live at home after graduation in order to repay all of your loans.

[Ryan_Beucke]

Does your school have an F tuba you could use? You might want to discuss this with your teacher, as they would probably know the best thing for you to do.

[RyanSchultz]

It is imperative, if you want a career as a tuba player, to start playing F tuba in college, preferably around 2nd or 3rd year.

I agree!!!

Show your parents the audition lists and explain what playing Bydlo or Symphony Fantastique on your big tuba would do to your competitiveness. I liken it to the tools someone needs to learn a trade in trade school.

Good luck.

[tubarepair]

The only difference is that investing in tools for a trade school leads to a high probability of getting a job. Take for example the 18 students that invested a $1000 for tools and graduated my band instrument repair course last year. Every one of them are employed and earning a decent living in music. Most earn more than the regional orchestras pay.

Now, how many $6000+ CC and F tubas are sitting on bassclefbrass.com hoping to be sold at a huge loss to pay off loans from a failed bid to be the next Chitown Symphony player?

Been there, done that. A good music school should own an F tuba or two. Besides, I made it into the Army on a Conn 5J. Once there you can get paid to play and save up money to pay cash for the tubas needed as Joe S. said. However, I suggest joining an Air Force band.

Not trying to knock anyone's dreams, but most of you guys would be better served buying about 20 footballs and practicing field goal kicking or punting to make it to the NFL. About the same number of available jobs at a greatly reduced investment/higher financial reward.

Daryl "who is expecting a Bush/Kerry type of response from this post" Hickman

[MartyNeilan]

If you don't have to have the latest and greatest 6/4 monster piston BAT F, there are many deals to be found on older smaller rotary valve F's. These will work fine for recital literature and lighter orchestral stuff. Tuning and low register may take more work, but extra practice has not hurt very many.
Also, look for what else you can cut back on. I wear old clothes, drive an old car (when it runs, otherwise I ride my 1987 Specialized Rockhopper Comp, usually with a rainsuit on and a tuba on my back), cut my own hair, skip lunch when I have to, and in general spend as little on myself as possible. I get a kick out of the "kids" at my school who eat out every day and drive new cars but marvel at how I have the money to buy a new metronome or a mouthpiece - "they could never possibly afford that."

P.S. I WILL be dropping a couple of bills on my wife's upcoming birthday present lest you all think I am a totally unbearable tightwad

[Dan Schultz]

Daryl "who is expecting a Bush/Kerry type of response from this post" Hickman

If it was up to Kerry.... EVERYONE would be entitled to an F tuba who wanted one.

[Rick Denney]

What about a crap tuba?

My first F tuba was a Musica that I bought in a surplus store for $1000. Premium F's at the time were in the range of $5K to 6K, with some cheaper alternatives just coming available (like the Yamaha 621 that was a bargain it's first couple of years).

That cheap Musica F would have been completely acceptable for the sorts of things a music-student needs an F for. It had only four valves, which made it unusable for things like quintet and for some solo literature, but it would do Berlioz and Stravinsky with no problem, along with most solo lit that really needs to be played on F.

I bought a more versatile F about a year or two later. When I did, I knew exactly what I wanted it to do, and I already knew how to play it. Also, I traded my Musica away (to a student who also used it to learn F) for about the same value in return as that $1000. Thus, the cost of ownership was zero.

For a similar instrument, think Amati.

And, for the record, I just paid less than half the price of a typical new F for an old five-valve B&S Symphonie, which many pros would be happy to use, and maybe happier to use than any new F. Shine is over-rated. I could easily have afforded this instrument with the proceeds of a summer job, say, stocking groceries.

Rick "who thinks any undergraduate tuba student should be able to demonstrate his potential on a Miraphone 186 or 188 contrabass and an Amati F, and use gig money, other earnings, and some trading skills to upgrade from there" Denney

[vmi5198]

It is imperative, if you want a career as a tuba player, to start playing F tuba in college, preferably around 2nd or 3rd year.

Sorry, but this just isn't true! I personally don't know why anyone should play F tuba at all! My BE 983 is a much better high horn than an F tuba any day... because it is actually in tune!

I do feel that you need a low horn and a high horn, but why F tuba? Eb is way more versatile than F will ever be.

[Ryan_Beucke]

I believe that many tuba players double on C and Eb, as well as C and F. It's not a question of keeping the two tuned in 4ths, but just a preference of sound and feel.

[vmi5198]

Why do you feel this way? Should even players of C instruments double on E-flat?

What are you talking about? What is this "rule" about only playing Eb if you have a Bb tuba? I don't understand... what I DO understand is the amount of ludicrous of this statement

Listen, once you are reaching the end of your Bachelor's, say 3rd or 4th year, getting a high horn is probably a good idea, especially if you want to further your career. However, it does not need to go any deeper than that! You need a high horn and a low horn - thats it! Ya, I play C - a GREAT C tuba, but I prefer an Eb over any F any day! So, why shouldn't I play it if I feel it works best for me?

A lot of teachers, like Dennis Miller to name but one, prefer you to play on C and F, but when I ask him why F and NOT Eb, he gives me some bull excuse that makes NO sense!

Come on people, you have a brain... use it! Play what works best, and don't get caught up in ridiculous rules like Bb/Eb or C/F crap... it is nonsense. I guess it is better you find this out here, rather than pretending you know what you are talking about and end up really embarressing yourself someday!

[Dan Schultz]

Well Mark, there is good news. The stigma and stereotype that has been associated with Eb the last few decades is slowly eroding. Eb's are having a comeback. .....

.....Logically, Eb makes sense as an all-around-can-only-have-one-tuba.

I happen to like F tuba. I'd like to own another, but I wouldn't pass up an Eb that would work better. There's no legitimate reason why someone should exclude Eb from the list of bass tuba possibilities (regardless of contrabass key), unless of course the individual horn in question does not fit/match the player and his concept of sound. If I had my way, I'd own one in each key. Doc

RIGHT ON! (how's that for showing my age?!) I agree with you, Doc. I started on Eb in the 50's mainly because that's what many of the grade schools taught... since the bass fingerings LOOK like treble clef trumpet fingerings.... 'cept for the clef sign. I still play mostly Eb and would use Eb for my only horn if I could find one with the depth of my B & S stencil BBb rotary. I've played Eb, BBb, CC, and F and... in my opinion... the migration between the Eb and BBb fingerings is extremly easy and I can switch in the middle of a tune if I like. For my purposes, I'll probably stick with the BBb and Eb horns.

[Getzeng50s]

dont bother convincing them. you dont need to cinvince your family you need one. If you need one, get a student loan or something. thats what i did. when i told my rents i needed another tuba, they giggled, asked me if i needed it and if it was necessary, i told them of course it was, then they were behind me in purchasing one... (only in moral support) lol finincial was my bag, i did what i had to do. good luck

[Captain Sousie]

Why do you 'need' an F tuba? I played through my years on a 4/4 CC, which I saved for and bought with my own money, and I was the best at my university. You don't have to have and F to play high, it makes it easier but you don't need it. With my CC I have a solid G above the staff, in tune and can play up there with a minimum of stress. Practice will solve most woes. When they don't, find a way around it.

News flash, mommy and daddy won't pay for everything for your whole life. Get used to that now. It will save you grief later.

Flame on.

[Getzeng50s]

and I was the best at my university.



Flame on.

you sound like a trumpet player

[Captain Sousie]

I will have you know that I was told by a trumpet player that I had the biggest ego that she had ever heard of.

By the way, I didn't say how good, or young, the rest of the players were

As for the "flame on"...